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I love my Archer!

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Comments

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    MrGoodkat said:

    Merina said:

    MrGoodkat said:

    @Merina: You can just replace the Berserker/Mage or the pure Berserker with an Archer.

    Huh, so many possibilities! I've restarted with the same party and replaced the Skald with an Archer. Too curious ... comparing the saved games, the new party arrived at the same dungeon location sooner. More than ten days. The Archer is the top killer so far, but someone else is catching up. Random item findings have been interesting, too. For the trolls I had extra safety due to "Fang", a bastard sword with a 25% chance of 1d3 acid damage and the similar fire bastard sword one can find, too. Compared with the Skald, the Archer has had no trouble whatsoever to finish off the trolls on the ground with fire arrows. Enough flaming oil in stock now...

    Replacing the Berserker? No way! Dwarfs are too funny. And this time he, Kieran, is dual-wielding an Axe and a Fast Flail +2 for an extra attack per round. Meanwhile the throwing returning axe is his, too.
    Glad it's working out for you. I still think you should have taken the Skald over the Berserker/Mage, but that's a matter of taste I guess.
    I do love my Skald, when he's playing and everyone is buffed up it leads to some really silly AC and damage numbers.

    Just having him there is increasing the places that I don't have to buff which means I can be lazy. Who's not for that?

    jackjack
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Wowo said:


    Just having him there is increasing the places that I don't have to buff which means I can be lazy. Who's not for that?

    Not to mention that it's one less character you need to babysit. Just have him/her singing their hearts out while you focus on the rest of the party. It's kind of nice not having to bother with my Skald most of the time.

  • jimmysdabestcopjimmysdabestcop Member Posts: 74
    I still have a hard time picking a Bard. Maybe if I wasn't playing HOF mode then I guess.

    I much rather have 2 dualed Fighter -- Cleric/Druid characters with their buffs. Not only individually but for the entire party. And you aren't losing character for the length of the fight. And of course Sorcerer is default for HOF. So the Bard kind of gets kicked out.

    Much rather have an Archer with Called shot. I can see in non HOF games an Archer even playing a bigger role since you can buy a mess of magical arrows. HOF my archer can go through 3-5K arrows a dungeon so its almost impossible to find enough magic arrows.

    I guess the lazy part is a real good point. Bard buffs are automatic just set the script to sing.

    Adding Sorcerer they should have just allowed the Bard to multi/dual like 3E anyway.

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968


    I much rather have 2 dualed Fighter -- Cleric/Druid characters with their buffs. Not only individually but for the entire party. And you aren't losing character for the length of the fight.

    Consider the Skald song. Each party member gets a +4 damage bonus with it's higher level songs, among other things. That's an additional 20 points of damage for the rest of the party. That's just as good as having another character engaging in combat.

    jackjack
  • jimmysdabestcopjimmysdabestcop Member Posts: 74
    Bless, Prayer and Recitation will get you +4 to attack, damage, saving throws with some Negatives for enemies thrown in there as well. And Everyone in Party can actually be attacking or casting spells at the same time.Plus Clerics can cast Blood Rage on any character and the anti fatigue spell I forget the name.

    It does depend on party make up I guess. If you are looking for 1 Arcane Magic user or More than 1. If you have a Sorcerer you don't have to worry about scrolls. Some kind of Mage and Bard it might difficult to get enough scrolls for both you want to overlap spells.

    Or I guess if you were give your Bard all of the Arcane buff spells it would free your Sorcerer and Mage up for all Summons or Damage spells depending on difficulty level.

    Bard Sons, plus cleric buffs, plus arcane emotion spell buffs. That is some serious buffs.

    I wish the Bard magic ability was based upon Sorcerer instead of Mage. Then I be in the Bard camp.

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968

    Bless, Prayer and Recitation will get you +4 to attack, damage, saving throws with some Negatives for enemies thrown in there as well.

    And if you also had a Skald in the party, you'd still have an additional +4 damage on top of all the other bonuses, plus some extras as well. The bottom line is that a Bard pulls it's weight in a party even if it's not attacking something. Which you can do anyway as the song will linger for a short while if you have the Bard do something else.

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    Belanos said:

    Bless, Prayer and Recitation will get you +4 to attack, damage, saving throws with some Negatives for enemies thrown in there as well.

    And if you also had a Skald in the party, you'd still have an additional +4 damage on top of all the other bonuses, plus some extras as well. The bottom line is that a Bard pulls it's weight in a party even if it's not attacking something. Which you can do anyway as the song will linger for a short while if you have the Bard do something else.

    I don't see sorcerer as necessary in HoF. My 3 main damage dealers have IH on them already from Projected Image. Once this is working the sorcerer is a wasted slot.

    If you have:
    Damage dealer*5
    Skald

    In this configuration the skald can contribute up to 200 damage per round if everyone maxes out their APR (which is tricky but manageable).

    Additionally, the +4 AC lowers AC into the nether regions where everyone is nigh untouchable (I can get all 5 damage dealers to about -17 AC I think).

    Finally, the +4 attack helps you hit when your characters are completing their duals or are fatigued and the immunities are useful to save spell slots on buffs and time buffing.

    Besides all that a bard is an excellent spellcaster and a great candidate for dropping CC in fights as you can usually do so without interrupting song.

    One last trick is that with the early xp cap for bards - 4.4mil - you can kick them from party for some quest rewards to give other characters an xp boost.

    JuliusBorisovShikaojackjack
  • jimmysdabestcopjimmysdabestcop Member Posts: 74
    Sorcerer in HOF it's easier for spell progression if not its hard to find scrolls that scale to level. Since your level is so much higher in HOF and the scrolls at shops are built around game chapters.

    Still mainly used for CC and summons.

    But it all does depend on party make up and what you feel like playing with. I typically only bring one arcane user so I rather it be a sorcerer.

    Shikao
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058

    Sorcerer in HOF it's easier for spell progression if not its hard to find scrolls that scale to level. Since your level is so much higher in HOF and the scrolls at shops are built around game chapters.

    Still mainly used for CC and summons.

    But it all does depend on party make up and what you feel like playing with. I typically only bring one arcane user so I rather it be a sorcerer.

    Duck into HoW early and you can find spell scrolls all the way up to 9 (including IH), some easy xp and some great items.

  • MerinaMerina Member Posts: 303
    No real challenge with the party mentioned above. HoW skipped.

    Percentage of total kills in party:

    Archer 30% - longbow

    Berserker 21% - axes with an extra attack weapon in offhand

    Cavalier 14% - two-handed swords, proficiency points wasted in unused skills

    Cleric/Ranger 12% - had started with flails and maces, and since rangers start with two-weapon++ it didn't feel right to make him the blocker boy, but I've found no good offhand weapons and instead, lots of good shields. Only late in the game, I found an extra attack scimitar the berserker dwarf could swap for his extra attack flail. Aaaargh!

    Berserker 3/Mage 10% - long swords : some good weapon combinations here to get extra spells, but overall I've not done much with this char. Mostly hack'n'slash. Remove Magic once. Secret Word once. Else Haste, Resist Fear.

    Fighter/Thief 9% - sling (halfling!), short swords and scimitars : bad choice. The best AC of all in the party late in the game, even when not carrying a shield, but screamed loudly whenever he became the blocker and got hit much too often and too easily. Really annoying.

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    Merina said:

    No real challenge with the party mentioned above. HoW skipped.

    Percentage of total kills in party:

    Archer 30% - longbow

    Berserker 21% - axes with an extra attack weapon in offhand

    Cavalier 14% - two-handed swords, proficiency points wasted in unused skills

    Cleric/Ranger 12% - had started with flails and maces, and since rangers start with two-weapon++ it didn't feel right to make him the blocker boy, but I've found no good offhand weapons and instead, lots of good shields. Only late in the game, I found an extra attack scimitar the berserker dwarf could swap for his extra attack flail. Aaaargh!

    Berserker 3/Mage 10% - long swords : some good weapon combinations here to get extra spells, but overall I've not done much with this char. Mostly hack'n'slash. Remove Magic once. Secret Word once. Else Haste, Resist Fear.

    Fighter/Thief 9% - sling (halfling!), short swords and scimitars : bad choice. The best AC of all in the party late in the game, even when not carrying a shield, but screamed loudly whenever he became the blocker and got hit much too often and too easily. Really annoying.

    30% seems to speak for itself!

    Then again, is it really enough to have the most kills?

    While your party isn't minmaxed to, well, the max so the archer fits in quite nicely would he still stand a test of value in a full dualed party of kensei/casters who have great to obscene damage but also have a full plethora of spells and can tank etc.

    For that matter even kensei builds have ranged options when their needed (MMM or Spiritual Hammer) and in these situations the actual damage output isn't usually important.

    Unfortunately for Archers they can't even claim to have the highest ranged DPS when you do want high ranged DPS to mow down large spawns in a bottle neck as a Druid or Mage can clear those spawns much faster with spike growth, cloudkill, incendiary cloud or acid storm (the latter two of which your characters can fight in or even be healed in with appropriate protections).

    Maybe if there were more casters that needed to be interrupted I could be on board but as is I just don't see an Archer as a priority when I can instead have 2 damage focused clerics, a Druid tank and some arcane duals backed up by a skald.

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