party banter

Duron

Okey, I have been searching for last hour for this but couldn't find it anywhere. I am getting the game no matter what but would love to know one thing, BG series was awesome but BG 1 had one thing missing, party banter. Random banter between characters. I was wondering did you implement that for old party members?

I mean by the looks of things, by having 3 new characters and somewhere I saw they are romancable that gives me belief that there is party banter if nothing else between them. So would be awesome if you could (and ofc tell me/us) will there be party banter in BG:EE?

I know you can't put "choices" like hooking up with Vico or Jaheira in BG 1 as story from 2nd game prevents it, but would be nice that we can have some conversations between characters like Jaheira getting pissed off at Khalid for cheating or something like that, or protagonist defending Imoen from another party member when she steals something from them etc.

Silverstar

Taken from the "what can't be done" type thread over in Feature Requests part of forum:

AndreaColombo said:

Hence, adding banters, inerjections and romances to the original cast of characters is unfortunately not feasible. They will interact with new NPCs and react to new situations and areas, but that's about it.

So it seems new party banter will be restricted to when the new content is involved.

Cheesebelly

They are kind of restricted to not altering the existing content. However I think some NPCs are getting a few new lines. Don't think it will go as far as Baldur's Gate 2 went with their NPCs, or the three new NPCs of BGEE for that matter, but there *should* be something added. Besides that, there will probably be mods to address the issue completely. Interestingly enough, modders were capable to reproduce the right feeling to the party members through their mods

Duron

Oh, sucks, I pressumed such but was hoping never the less that some banter between characters could have been possible, something that wouldn't do much, but on some part of map just get 2 party members talking, I had so many laughs at Jan and his banter with everybody. Specially the twin hammer jokes and him as a God.

Silverstar

Well if I understand it right the old characters can have banter/interjections with the new ones at least, the restriction is when strictly the original characters are involved; so they can't do anything like your Jaheira/Khalid example, but Jaheira could converse with the new guys... I think.

Duron

Like I said, doesn't matter. BG series is still best RPG game of all times, ME series got real close in RPG segment... and then last 5 minutes of ME3 happened :P . However the game will look, and will be I can't wait to get some Sarevok ass kicked for murdering Gorion.

LordsDarkKnight185

off topic...

Khalid would NEVER cheat on Jaheira.

SHAME ON YOU FOR THINKING SO!

Duron

Ammm... you do know that by official story, and their personal lore, two of them have problems in their marriage. By novels that go off the game story, it is said that the problem in their marriage is because Khalid cheated on her (would explain the problems they are having)

Quote from Forgotten realms wiki: "Jaheira was a druid and follower of Mielikki and described as a warrior. She did not show much aptitude for coping in nature and did not engage in combat much. She was not very independent and was prone to screaming, often needing protagonist to help her out in various situations. She met and fell in love with him while still being rather unhappily married to Khalid, who cheated on her. They both knew he was a Bhaalspawn, and she felt guilty for their plans to manipulate him in some unspecified way on behalf of the Harpers."

LordsDarkKnight185

...those "novel" ABOMINATIONS do not count! NEVER mention them in my presence again! D<

Duron

I agree they are abominations. Still, this part I actually accepted without a second thought, as short lore of them both did mention tension between two of them. Could be it is only because of knowledge about Bhaalspawn and their disagreement what to do with you and Harpers, but I do tend towards this explanation myself. Except this two reasons I really can't think of anything else why would two married Harpers have any problems, specially two that adventure together. But hey, to each their own

LordsDarkKnight185

"To each their own" ...your still a bad person for believing such things >.>;

Duron

Hey give me a little break, like this I can easier explain to myself why I hit on a widow and refused Godhood for her :P

LordsDarkKnight185

<.< You did it because you both loved the sweetheart Khalid, and his horrible death brought you both together.

Silverstar

The real reason for the problems is they're both fighters and know the omnipresent authority figure probably feels both aren't needed. Noone wants to be the one that "sadly" dies and gets party reformed!

bigdogchris

Not following you @Duron - I recently played around a bit with BGT and party members did have banter amongst themselves. They would compliment each other. If one complimented Khalid he would say "Wh... why thank you".

koverasalt

Duron said:

She was not very independent and was prone to screaming, often needing protagonist to help her out in various situations.

I thought this referred to Khalid at first

Koson

Duron said:

Quote from Forgotten realms wiki: "Jaheira was a druid and follower of Mielikki and described as a warrior. She did not show much aptitude for coping in nature and did not engage in combat much. She was not very independent and was prone to screaming, often needing protagonist to help her out in various situations. She met and fell in love with him while still being rather unhappily married to Khalid, who cheated on her. They both knew he was a Bhaalspawn, and she felt guilty for their plans to manipulate him in some unspecified way on behalf of the Harpers."

Somehow this wiki quote seems a bit off to me. The Jaheira portrayed in the games is definitely combative, independent and not prone to squeaky screaming, and if I remember correctly (is years since I last played the games) in her dialogue/voiceset she mentions Silvanus, not Mielikki.

Jolanthus

@koson true but the books make the realms canon, unfortunately the games (although they have their own canon moments contained only to the series) are not meaning they are contradictatory to the books.

jhart1018

The BG novel was trash. If there were more, I purposefully avoided them.

Silverstar

Jolanthus said:

@koson true but the books make the realms canon, unfortunately the games (although they have their own canon moments contained only to the series) are not meaning they are contradictatory to the books.

The games are canon to the games. What some Baldur's Gate novel says is entirely irrelevant until we're forced to play its characters through its railroad storyline. The novel(s) isn't what's being played. The BG and ID series is not to be confused with the newer Final Fantasy games or other adventure games; we name our characters, we choose how to play them, we choose their race, class, companions and to lesser extent behaviour. Sure there's still a linear story to follow, but we're given choices in how to play that story and can make some choices that changes parts of it.

Your novel is contradictory to my character; unless the novel's hero is also a human good-natured arcane magic user who has Imoen loot anything that isn't nailed down in a house while doing a quest for its occupants and travels with an ever-changing group based on who's more fun or has a quest to do at the time. I somehow doubt it.

Sarevok died to the bite of a lowly summoned wolf, your novel is full of it if it says otherwise

LadyRhian

@Jolanthus In the novels, Minsc has long red hair and spends the entire novel cleaning an inn because he'd rather do that than go adventuring. He is not associated with Dynaheir, either. The books have a rather sketchy connection to the game, although they are supposed to be canon for the Realms. I prefer the actual game to the books of the games.

Jolanthus

@jhart1018 @Silverstar & @LadyRhian I agree with you all. Story wise the novels don't hold a candle to the games. Perhaps it's best to pretend they are alternate versions. Like the Dresden Files books and TV show.

shawne

Jolanthus said:

@jhart1018 @Silverstar & @LadyRhian I agree with you all. Story wise the novels don't hold a candle to the games. Perhaps it's best to pretend they are alternate versions. Like the Dresden Files books and TV show.

Even that is a problematic comparison, because the objection here isn't to quality (or at least, not just to quality) - games like "Baldur's Gate", "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" can't be adapted into linear media like novels or film because their entire structure is based on variables: the overall story arc may be fixed, but how you get there changes from player to player, and no single text could ever encompass all possibilities.

That the BG novels did great disservice to the characters is practically another matter entirely - ultimately, they're not canon because there is no canon in these games, not in the traditional sense. At most, there's "personal canon": Sarah Shepard saves the Council, Daniel Hawke is forced to execute his lover for his crimes, Selene the Bhaalspawn becomes an evil goddess. These things are true for me because they're the narratives I constructed - but those narratives can't be imposed on other players.

jhart1018

@Jolanthus You know of Dresden? Excellent. Polka will never die.

@shawne From what I understand, the DAO based novels are prequels, so they fit with existing narrative no matter what the Warden does. However, I haven't read them, so if I'm wrong, I apologize. That said, I think you're right; novels based on choice-heavy games are, at best, merely one possible way to tell the story. What I most objected to in the BG novel was the character assassination of the NPCs.

shawne

@jhart1018: I was actually referring to attempts at adapting the games themselves (which is what the BG novels tried to do) - tie-ins are, of course, fair game.

That said, even there you can run into problems: David Gaider's "Asunder" is set after DA2 and features Wynne, but Wynne can die in the first game. And some of the recent comics have Alistair as King of Ferelden - granted, I always execute Loghain, but the game allows you to play that scenario differently, and I can't help thinking that some players out there have had their own stories invalidated.

Well, unless you take my hardline-narrative-purist approach and just stick to the games themselves.