Party ideas

Graiyle

Hi all! Its been a long long while since ive played icewind dale but when I saw the enhanced edition was out I figured I had to give it a try, after all the time I spent loving it those years ago. That being said im a bit indecisive on my party composition with the addition of all the new kits, so here are some of my thoughts and I'd appreciate any input. I'd like to be able to take the party I make through the game and thenreplay in HoF fury mode.

Tank- Dwarven Defender might just be able to tank through hof, Undead hunter for sheer amount of undead in the game, or blackguard simply because I have yet to try it. IIRC Pale Justice only required that the user be a Paladin, anyone know if he might actually be able to use it?

Secondary- Archer, Sun Soul Monk, or Stalker to experiment with the sneak attack mechanics. Leaning toward Archer.

Healer - Talos, predictability of enemy encounter makes storm shield considerably more useful(salamanders?), new tempus is practically a f/c, or an Avenger

Thief - Assassin. About the only one I'm decided on, with sneak attack hide and move can be relatively ignored without gimping his combat until later levels. Shadow dancer seems like an interesting class but if using sneak attack instead seems like it would almost eliminate his benefits

Mage- Dragons Disciple most likely, added survivability and no dependance on scrolls, plus havent tried one yet. Was also considering WM or pure sorc.

Extra/support- Thinking a bard here, though I have no idea which kit, they all seem viable. Jester for helping mob cc, skald song mightbe very beneficial given that the party isnt terribly melee heavy, blade to be an additional combatant, reg for song variety. Played vanilla with one so I know thier versatility, and gives a place for those scrolls with a sorc companion. If I went with a WM though having a second scroll user doesnt seem ideal.

I've heard that free action negates the defenders move penalty, or the blades offensive immobility, is that right? Dont remember if rings of free action exist in IWD though.

Belanos

Graiyle said:

Secondary- Archer, Sun Soul Monk, or Stalker to experiment with the sneak attack mechanics. Leaning toward Archer.

I'd recommend Archer. I have one in my party and she's probably the most valuable member. Having both stealth abilities plus being able to deal significant damage at range is very helpful. I've been using her to set up ambushes, which is working out quite well.

Graiyle said:

Thief - Assassin. About the only one I'm decided on, with sneak attack hide and move can be relatively ignored without gimping his combat until later levels. Shadow dancer seems like an interesting class but if using sneak attack instead seems like it would almost eliminate his benefits

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to have a pure class Thief in this game. I think you'd be better off with a Fighter/Thief multiclass. Especially if you have an Archer, who can handle the stealth stuff.

Graiyle said:

Mage- Dragons Disciple most likely, added survivability and no dependance on scrolls, plus havent tried one yet. Was also considering WM or pure sorc.

Dragon Disciple is a good way to go. Make sure you know what you're doing when it comes to spell selection though as you'll be stuck with whatever you pick.

Graiyle said:

Extra/support- Thinking a bard here, though I have no idea which kit, they all seem viable.

Either a regular Bard or a Skald. The final Bard song is quite good, but you have to go through a couple of dubious songs before you get there. Skald songs are always good. Having a Bard in the party is definitely an asset.

Rylorn23

Graiyle said: Tank- Dwarven Defender might just be able to tank through hof, Undead hunter for sheer amount of undead in the game, or blackguard simply because I have yet to try it. IIRC Pale Justice only required that the user be a Paladin, anyone know if he might actually be able to use it?


I think, that Blackguards cannot use Pale Justice. It's simply for Lawful good paladins. But there is a sword called "Dead God's Dreaming" that can be useful for a blackguard, if he/she using sword and shield or Two weapon style. Sadly, it's in Trials of Luremaster.


Pale Justice

http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/icewinddale/equipment/images/palejustice.jpg

Dead God's Dreaming

http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/icewinddale/equipment/images/deadgodsdreaming.jpg

elminster

Graiyle said:

or blackguard simply because I have yet to try it. IIRC Pale Justice only required that the user be a Paladin, anyone know if he might actually be able to use it?

No evil characters can't use it so that means Blackguards can't.

Watchmaker

Consider something like this
1Paladin or Undead Hunter or Dwarven Defender but I would take UH
2 Ranger Cleric multi
3 Fighter Druid multi
4 Archer
5 Mage Thief multi
6 Pure Bard

It is heavy xp party I know but if you want to finish game two times (normal plus hof) it is well balanced I think...

You will have 3 haracters for tanking when in need and they all can cast spells in armor or even shoot along with other 3 that will be in back row casting spells, singing and providing suppresive fire. Also you had very strong casting haracters.
Druidic spells by F/D and R/C + Archer as support caster
Arcane by M/T + Bard as support caster
And Divine R/C + Paladin support.

Archer can get cadawers as racial enemy to shoot out many flesh undead that are plenty in ID and R/C will destroy skeleton undead with great efficency when dual wielding blunt weapons

Paladin... so you wont felt bad for putting this nice sword to bag of holding...

Thief... you only need one and one mage also.. both aren't to good front liners so M/T for saving party slot...also great synergy when you want to do a little backstabing invisibility combo... but you will witness so many battles in this game that you will be tired of direct spine surgery with dagger on your enemys at some point... also they get nice place in back row with some ranged weapons.

Pure Bard. Jack of all. Wery versatile and those handy pick pockets that you dont had to inwest with your M/T and sweet lore bonus so you can easy identify all items without rest problems in full of enemy areas.

Tankers. Casters. Healers. Thiefs. Shapeshifters. Archers. Direct combatants...even singers... this party has it all.

...it lacks only monks... but there is no room left for poor ass kicker...

Graiyle

Thanks for the advice!

So here's what I'm thinking now:

Tank - UH, long/bastard sword n shield
thanks for the tip on the dead god's dreaming sword! I'd still like to try a blackguard but I'll try that on another playthrough. I assume thats a bastard sword specialization yeah?

Secondary physical - Elven Archer, longbows, cadaverous UD. Combined with UH will tear through em. I agree Watchmaker, I love monks but that was my main in my first playthrough of bg2, and I can wait for bg2ee on droid for the full sun soul rasaad experience

Priest - Tempus, Mace. The last party I ran in vanilla consisted of P, C/R, F/T, M, D, and a B. The C/R I expect is probably still the better choice but id like try something different. Question is should I go with a human for the option of dualling later, or take the orc str bonus? Also, can someone tell me if the totemic druid pets raise proportionately in HoF?

Arcane - Dragon Disciple, elf? The levelled con bonus gives slow regen with nonelven though, maybe h/e? Worth the loss of missle thac0?

Thief - Assassin, short swords, I definitely want to experiment with the new sneak attack mechanics, and I ran a f/t before (halfling for helm of trusted defender) but with the advice I'm thinking I'll go human this time and just set his int at 18 so I could have the option for dualling later on as either a mage or a fighter, whichever felt more lacking

Support - Skald, h/e, halberds n xbow. Every character will benefit from his song except the disciple

Watchmaker I notice there are 4 divine casters in your party, or at least 2 multi and 2 subcasters. What's your reasoning behind the divine plethora? I played into HoF mode a bit in Vanilla but didnt complete it, will it take all that healing in later areas?

jackjack

Watchmaker said:

Consider something like this
1Paladin or Undead Hunter or Dwarven Defender but I would take UH
2 Ranger Cleric multi
3 Fighter Druid multi
4 Archer
5 Mage Thief multi
6 Pure Bard

This is very close to my party:
1. Pure Bard
2. Dwarven Defender
3. Fighter/Druid multi
4. Priest of Lathander
5. Archer
6. Mage/Thief multi

Belanos

Graiyle said:

Secondary physical - Elven Archer, longbows, cadaverous UD. Combined with UH will tear through em.

Archers shouldn't really be in the front lines, their strength is in their ranged attacks. Stick them in the front and they'll be spending most of their engaging in melee and not really achieving their full potential.

Watchmaker

To be honest... I had no Idea This party is a little theory craft I did in work when I was bored yesterdey without to much resources just my memory...24 hour shift... but now I had 2 days free time to try this combination.. I like diversity.. so much divine was not intended but comes on its own. Core of balanced team in my book is thief cleric druid and mage. Also it is ID... combat heavy game.. You need blockers and Hof is usually a second playthrough so multiclases are viable if You intend for powerfull party.. so...
f/d is only possible multi
r/c no good reason to go f/c when You can go r/c and have both druidic and cleric spells
t/m to save party slot...
and then add whatever You want... personal preference bard paladin archer...
paladin is mainly for its tanking and archer for shooting but they both come with support casting ability... I think it all synergizes well.

Graiyle

Belanos said:

Archers shouldn't really be in the front lines, their strength is in their ranged attacks. Stick them in the front and they'll be spending most of their engaging in melee and not really achieving their full potential.

I mean a secondary source of good physical damage, not actually a second meatshield. My other two choices for this slot wouldnt be very apt at frontlining either I dont think, stalker or sun monk (at least til late game), secondary tank would
have to filled by the priest role with my current party composition

Seeing quite a bit of F/D love, but why not dual from fighter at 9 for gmastery?

Watchmaker

If You are fond of duals why not... I don't like the idea of dulling... humans... meh I think multis are more confident way of playing also 30/30 levels is possible and while it may be best for characters like r/c c/m it is still viable even for righter/druid considering HOF where You need all of HP You can get and good THAC0/saves etc...

Belanos

Graiyle said:

Seeing quite a bit of F/D love, but why not dual from fighter at 9 for gmastery?

You don't need to wait until 9th level unless you want to use a weapon that the class isn't normally allowed to use. You can get 4 points into a weapon by level 6 Fighter, add one more level for an extra 1/2 attack per round, then when you reach level 8 Druid you can add the final point to your weapon of choice. For instance with a Fighter/Druid, you put 2 points in Scimitar at character creation, another at level 3 and again at level 6. Druids get points every 4 levels, so by level 8, when you get your Fighter levels back, you can put the final point in Scimitar to become a Grandmaster.

Watchmaker said:

I think multis are more confident way of playing

Except multis can't Grandmaster. The most they can put towards a weapon skill is 2 points.

Watchmaker

Belanos said:

Except multis can't Grandmaster. The most they can put towards a weapon skill is 2 points.

Biggest flaw of multis... something I always considered as "broken implementation" and tend to bypass by mods.

hexxactly

On first run through of IWDEE with this party:

Cavalier
Dwarven Defender
Priest of Tyr
Bard
Shadowdancer7/Fighter (Archer)
Shadowdancer10/Mage

Similar idea as above parties. In Lower Dorn's Deep, party hasn't had any real problems, 3 reloads total.

Next time I run its going to be a no reloads. These are the changes I think I'll make:

Paladin - I'm not sure they're necessary. I'm running a Cav and there's a lot of undead yeah. But I'm not sure if even an Undead Hunter is the way either. I'm constantly healing my Pally it seems or running away mid battle. I think another high HP, hard hitting tanker is maybe better. A dwarf berserker or straight dwarf fighter 18/ STR, 19 CON, probably dual wielding longswords, grandmastery.

Dwarven Defender - excellent. Spam monsters to take hits in middle of mobs and let above hack away.

Priest of Tyr - done her job well. might try Lathander next time. Or multi a fighter/cleric.

Bard - great for what he is, essential really. Crossbow, spellcaster, buffer, pickpocketer. Now that he has Seth song he's basically the cleric buffer man. No longer fights just plays that song.

Shadowdancer7/fighter - my round about way to have the perfect scout/archer. Find traps, pick locks, hide in shadows, grandmaster longbows (eventually), evasion and shadowstep for the times she rounds a corner and runs into a mob.

Shadowdancer10/mage - I liked dragon disciple in the BGs but with scrolls being skint in IWD and 2 schools closed now on specialized I think mage is the way to go. I'd probably still dual in from thief but earlier probably 3 or 5. At 3 throw all skill points into one of find traps or pick locks and when above is working to regain thieving have this one knock or cleric find traps in the interm depending which of the 2 you dumped skill points in.

These are the changes I can see for a 6 party no reload run.

Fardragon

Any character who can't use ranged weapons is going to take a hammering in IWD. Paladins are certainly not nessassary in IWD but undead hunter's ability to use a bow is a huge advantage. Also unnessassary are mages.

I don't think a human shadowdancer would have enough thief points at level 7 for hide, sneak, traps and locks.

Belanos

Watchmaker said:

Biggest flaw of multis... something I always considered as "broken implementation" and tend to bypass by mods.

I used to use that tweak from the BG Tweaks mod, thinking like you do, but recently I realized that it just made having Humans and dual-classing pointless. Why bother going to all that trouble when multis get the same benefits as duals? And why bother having a Human when a half-elf gets the same opportunities for classes , but also get some bonuses vs. sleep and charm spells etc. With that tweak in place, the only time it would make sense to have a Human is if you're running a Paladin. Which made me realize that it wasn't "broken implementation" at all and removed it from my game. Frankly I think the caster side should suffer some sort of penalty as well, like maybe one less spell per level that they can cast.

Watchmaker

Good point, You are right. But still I am not a big fan of limiting such things.. Multis big problem is how slow they level up. They only purpose is diversity and saving space in Your team. I would rather have pure fighter in front line and mage at range then one fighter/mage multi. Dualing isn't as bad in terms of xp points because as You progress through game You gain more and more xp fo each single quest and kill enemys that are worth more xp so You can gain missing levels fast.. still the mechanic of dualing isn't appealing to me.. but to be honest I never ever tried it

Belanos

Watchmaker said:

still the mechanic of dualing isn't appealing to me.. but to be honest I never ever tried it

And why would you when you can have a multi with the same benefits as a dual? If you remove that tweak, there's more incentive to go with a dual-class Human.

Watchmaker

I play without mods currently. Maybe this will encourage me to try dualing some day

Lord_Tansheron

The real reason to dual over multi imo is that multi can't get Grand Mastery. Since that adds a whopping 3/2 APR in IWD:EE, it is a pretty big incentive for any fighter you have to be a dual instead of a multi.

This of course only applies to combinations with a fighter in them, not others.

Belanos

Watchmaker said:

Maybe this will encourage me to try dualing some day

It works great with the Divine casters. You can have a Druid and/or a Cleric that can cast spells but also be just as good at melee as a Fighter. Plus they start out with higher Strength than the default casters. That's what I'm using dual-class for. The only draw back is that you have to wait awhile before you get access to those two classes. But if you stock up on lots of Potions of Healing, it's certainly doable.

hexxactly

Fardragon said:

I don't think a human shadowdancer would have enough thief points at level 7 for hide, sneak, traps and locks.

Not great no. 95 locks, 85 traps, 35 hide, 30 silent. I just spam stealth til it catches for going round corners and scouting and such.