Playing it Hardcore

Cuan

Does anybody ever try to finish the game in a "hardcore manner"? I like to challenge myself a bit and play with the following rules:

1) No resurrection of any joinable NPC. Once they are dead, they stay dead. You have to go find a new joinable NPC to replace them.

2) No reloading. My main character dies it is game over.

I find having just those 2 rules makes the game alot more intense and fun to play. I am curious to how other people restrict themselves to add fun/challenge to the game?

Ward

No way. I don't play BG for a challenge, I play for a story. I play IWD for a challenge AND a story. This game is not fun when it comes to combat. So the combat is the small bit for me.

I load CHARNAME to 18 in all stats fighter just so I don't miss out on anything. Inb4youguyslaugh.

e3r4t5yn

I use to play in the following manner:

* NO game loads unless the main char dies;
* NO NPC resurrection;
* The hardest difficulty mode;
* Always choose the evil path;
* Low reputation level - kill whoever you want, but NO fights with civilians and those cannot retaliate;
* Let your reputation fall under 5 points and guards will start hunting you (can be restored at any temple afterwards);

Such game playing manner left me with Eldoth, Skie, Tiax and Alora and the end of the game before the final fight. The rest of the NPCs just died in battles.

Thus, I've tried playing almost ANY NPC game provides (except for Ajantis and Minsk - killed on conversation; Dynaheir - killed on Edwin's quest).

selous_scout

Yes. I like to make my Baldurs Gate campaigns as real as possible and honestly cant play it any other way. I'll also substitute a seriously wounded party member for someone else at the earliest convenience or someone who has taken alot of damage over the course of a few battles. I'm a bit OCD about BG: if my character dies it's definetely game over; if I make massive, stupid tactical blunders I'll start over; even opening or closing doors while being far away from them is hugely annoying and breaks my immersion with the game.

A slow, measured, realistic BG campaign is infinitely satisfying to me and it definetely goes beyond being just a game.

Cuan

I forgot that I also increase the difficulty to max. But I have that on max no matter how I am playing, which proberly why I forgot to mention it.

But playing hardcore like that I have only managed to finish the game several times. I find it alot of fun personally.

neleothesze

@Ward
I'm not laughing. I play RPGs for the story as well.

@Cuan I think I'd end up meta-gaming too much by putting restrictions because I'd end up worrying about every encounter, looking it up, brushing up on every strategy to actually enjoy the time spent ingame. I'm not the best player out there (haven't ever soloed either BG1 or 2; haven't killed X boss naked and unarmed or anything) and it would be very frustrating I think to double check my every decision just so I don't lose my favourite characters.
The mods I use, after all, are "story mods"(NPC banter/quests/interactions) rather than monster adding/difficulty enhancing/strategy mods. With BG:EE I will be more interested in the new characters than the Black Pits for example so losing one character wouldn't be a challenge, it would be a disaster :>

I guess the only restriction I set for myself is that I try to fight battles without abusing the environment... so for example no exiting areas if the monsters don't follow, no casting from secret places so the mobs can't see me, stuff like that - but it's more for the RP value than anything.

Paheej

@Cuan
I've done it. Actually it was a play through BG2. I made it through with Valen (mod NPC), Viconia, and Minsc in my party. I believe I was the overpowered Kensai/Mage for my PC.

There was a significant amount of bodies piled up in the ditches all around Amn. Keldorn, Jan, Xan (mod NPC from BG1), and Aerie all bit the dust. Valen starting randomly eating civilians one night in the docks district which made me fight it out through almost all of Amn, I probably killed 200 guards alone.

I used Slayer liberally throughout the campaign always hovering god-awful and game ending reputation.

Lastly I had Edwin in may party, who ended up dying right before the final section of the game due to his quest . . . but in the end a Bhaalspawn in Slayer form can crush through huge sections of the game.

Chippy

I can play the game with the OP's rules and enjoy it (normal difficulty because harder makes no sense). The only problem is when I install mods that don't explain themselves, and create enemies that operate outside the rules / kill my part instantly. That's one of the reasons I'm liking the standardisation of BG:EE.

Cheesebelly

I play as I feel like playing the game. Most of the time that means as an average bobby really. Don't want too much of a challenge, want some fun with SOME challenges, that's all really.

Occasionally attempted a no-reload. Sometimes succeeded, sometimes failed due to my ego (attempting at killing the golems in high hedge on level 3 is NOT clever)

raywind

SCS and hardest difficulty allways. but i do reload its hard enough with it for me and i cant see point in rerolling again and again

Candramelekh

Cuan said:

1) No resurrection of any joinable NPC.

Resurrection of NPC is a part of dnd and FR settings, so it is core rule. Forbiddance for resurrection is not hardcore, it is your own challenge for game.

One of my "hardcore" rules is to use only one spell set for simple location of multiplelayers locations like mines or dungeons

Moira

I respect the "true death" approach but don't have the patience for it myself. I get attached to the characters in my party, and it's challenge enough to play so that they always survive an encounter. Also, I'm too hungry for the story to advance

Candramelekh said:

One of my "hardcore" rules is to use only one spell set for simple location of multiplelayers locations like mines or dungeons

I seek do this ^ though.

SirK8

On my current play through I'm using these self imposed restrictions:

- No reload unless main PC dies (this was hard to abide by when I lost Imoen permanently to a fireball trap).
- Make decisions/dialogue choices based on RP (character alignment, goals, "realism", etc.). This one is tough for me sometimes because I know that some dialogue choices are a dead end or others give better results, but it is resulting in a unique playing experience for me.
- Try to keep my "resting" realistic
- I always play on the "core" difficulty level that uses the D&D ruleset.

Silverstar

Nah. Apart from leaving the slider at the middle where it's called D&D Hardcore Rules (which just means "normal" apparently) I don't make the game any harder than it is. Well unless you count going with non-optimal group setups; I bring along the characters I like, not the ones that have spesific roles or are the best at those roles... which means in my current BGII game I have no thief I don't see why anyone would want to purposely make the game harder for themselves, but respect their decision to do so and the games for allowing it.

Kerozevok

The rule that I always apply : Never cast a spell, use a potion or snack attack before the circles are red.

I also edited a lot of creatures (AI, AC, TAC0, HP, items, ability...), but it's only "work in progress" at this time.

Cuan said:

1) No resurrection of any joinable NPC. Once they are dead, they stay dead.

By the past, I've already play with this rule, perhaps 5 or 6 dead (BG + Tosc, without any mod).

SpaceInvader

With SCSII+Tactics+Ascension+PSmod26c+Spell50+Improved Asylum at Normal I failed 6/7 with my solo sorc.
1 time vs Illych's party, 2 times cuz I was caught unprepared for confusion, 1 time I got killed by the magic elementals in the Planar Sphere (PSmod), 1 vs Breundayael's party (Improved Asylum), 1 time in beholders hive (with improved beholders it took so damn long), 1 vs improved Irenicus in Hell (I sweared many times there...)
Once I had Wish spell for infinite spells ToB was a piece of cake.

EDIT: never tried in BG, and probably I will never do it xD

beerflavour

I save the game very often but I try to use reload very sparingly.
1) in case the game should crash
2) to avoid negative or 0 hit point increases on level up
3) in the case of a total party wipe out or the protagonist dying


If a battle doesn't go well I don't let the party die but instead try to retreat and reform.


When the party needs rest I seek out a safe place.


Dead party members get resurrected at a temple or by a high level cleric.


I write down which spells arcane spellcasters tried to copy to their spellbooks. The failed ones I try to copy again when the spellcaster gained a new level.


Clerics will only have access to 6th and 7th level spells with 17+ wisdom (i.e. I leave the spell slots empty otherwise).


I play with standard rules (e.g. friendly fire with spells like fireball, etc.).

DavidW

There is a fair-sized no-reload community on the original Bioware BG/BG2 forums.

gunman

I also play with no reload rule, but I ressurect NPCs at the temple if they die. If main character dies it's game over.
I also try not to pre buff when I know a battle is coming, but there are some fights where it is almost sure death if not pre buffing - like fighing the dwarven warders in Durlag's Tower.

Son_of_Imoen

I play with the core rules difficulty and SCS to make battles harder and Hard Times to cut down on the loot and increase store prices (reflecting the Iron Crisis), but I'm a chronic reloader instead of a no-reloader. I constantly try getting the best outcome, even reloading when accidentily missing some items in getting the best price. I quite often in a game, I would never make it to the end in no-reload style, I'm not really a veteran. I finished BG about five times and SOA once, but I don't know every nook and cranny of the game and the rules.

CCarluNN

Not exactly hardcore as in core rules and no-reload, but I remember playing IWD in Heart of Fury mode, which greatly increases the difficulty. Is there a similar thing for BG?

Lemernis

If you want to go all the way add no-pause to that list, lol!

No reload is really, really tough. I tried it once participating in a PBG forum challenge probably almost a decade ago, and I don't think I even made it through the Nashkel Mines, lol. There was a forum member there at the time, Wanderon, who managed to make it to the final battle--except he lost there! IIRC, he later reported that he did eventually complete a no-reload game FTW.

But anyway, I found it just too difficult to complete the game without a reload to be fun for me.

I prefer to increase difficulty by installing SCS/SCS II and assembling offbeat parties, sometimes including custom mod NPCs who are well written and interesting but not uber-powerful.

sandmanCCL

Outside of the game crashing, that's how I play the game.

It's so much more fun and engaging to me to play the game this way. No more hunting vampiric wolves at level 2 with arrows +1 that I stole, just so I can level up to 4 instantly. Making sure I'm equipped to handle any situation adds a ton of depth reloading the game during a bad outcome doesn't provide.

It's also why I'm such a stickler on meta-gaming, but then again that's enjoyable to me. To each their own! I don't begrudge someone who doesn't at all.

My Kensai/Thief I beat the entire saga with (he was just a regular fighter in BG1, thank god) was easily my favorite playthrough. Never had to reload a single time. Winning the final encounter in Throne of Bhaal was such a rush and I'm not sure I've had a gaming satisfaction moment as powerful as that in my life.

Paheej

sandmanCCL said:

It's so much more fun and engaging to me to play the game this way. No more hunting vampiric wolves at level 2 with arrows +1 that I stole, just so I can level up to 4 instantly. Making sure I'm equipped to handle any situation adds a ton of depth reloading the game during a bad outcome doesn't provide.

I find that "no-reloading" actually makes it more reasonable to do ridiculous stuff at the beginning of the game. Essentially has a much better risk/reward. Getting killed at the beginning isn't a big deal because you haven't invested a ton of time into your character. However, getting to Level 4 right after Candlekeep gives you a significant advantage that you can essentially "pad" the rest of the game, increasing your chance of making it to Sarevok. Last battle is a complete nightmare with only one/two characters though.

sandmanCCL

Paheej said:

I find that "no-reloading" actually makes it more reasonable to do ridiculous stuff at the beginning of the game. Essentially has a much better risk/reward. Getting killed at the beginning isn't a big deal because you haven't invested a ton of time into your character. However, getting to Level 4 right after Candlekeep gives you a significant advantage that you can essentially "pad" the rest of the game, increasing your chance of making it to Sarevok. Last battle is a complete nightmare with only one/two characters though.

The last battle basically requires you exploit the AI so you only engage one of Sarevok's goons at a time. If I recall, there's a way to get each of them separate through cunning use of stealth, allowing you to kill everything with a well-placed cloudkill as you sit comfortably in a corner.

Once you get Sarevok alone, summon ass-tons of creeps and just kite him til he falls over. Gotta love tank and spank bosses eh?

But yes. It is extremely, extremely hard to do solo.

Mortianna

Cuan said:

Does anybody ever try to finish the game in a "hardcore manner"? I like to challenge myself a bit and play with the following rules:

1) No resurrection of any joinable NPC. Once they are dead, they stay dead. You have to go find a new joinable NPC to replace them.

2) No reloading. My main character dies it is game over.

I find having just those 2 rules makes the game alot more intense and fun to play. I am curious to how other people restrict themselves to add fun/challenge to the game?

I've done this as well. It does make the game MUCH more difficult, but even the more rewarding, especially if you make it a rule to never reload for higher hit points during level up. Having to accept a 1 hit point level up with a mage isn't easy to do, especially with an average constitution.

Silverstar

Heh. Another thread on Wild Mages just now gave me an idea for your hardcore nuts; if playing a mage, make it a Wild Mage who's only allowed to use Nahal's Reckless Dweomer... with no Chaos Shield (or whatever the name of that spell is). That should make things interesting with the no resurrections and reload policies.

Lemernis

Silverstar said:

Heh. Another thread on Wild Mages just now gave me an idea for your hardcore nuts; if playing a mage, make it a Wild Mage who's only allowed to use Nahal's Reckless Dweomer... with no Chaos Shield (or whatever the name of that spell is). That should make things interesting with the no resurrections and reload policies.

I did complete a BGT game once with Wild Mage PC who casted as such, and assembled a Chaotic aligned party. I did not play it no-reload/no-res, however. It was a lot of fun.