Help me choose - F/M dual class or multiclass?

Proteus

I'm creating a Fighter/Mage to use primarily as a backline archer + mage.

Am I better off going dual class (Fighter 9/Mage X) or just choosing Elf and going multiclass?

Edit: I am playing with a 4 man party, and intend to go through HoF eventually.

FinneousPJ

Depends on game mode. In normal mode I would probably choose the multi due to slower XP gain. In HoF the dual is easier to pull off.

Proteus

FinneousPJ said:

Depends on game mode. In normal mode I would probably choose the multi due to slower XP gain. In HoF the dual is easier to pull off.

Oh right, forgot to mention. I am using a 4 person party and intend to play HoF after a normal run.

FinneousPJ

So you're going to do a normal run followed by a HoF run with the same party? I'd do multi in that case.

Wowo

I don't see any benefit to the multiclass. In fact, for an archer, I don't see much benefit to going past level 7 fighter (for a nice round amount of attacks per round. Just for proficienes make sure that you level to wizard 5 and then don't take another wizard level until you have enough xp for wizard 8 so that you can get Grandmastery in bows with your level 6 pip.

You'll appreciate the higher damage and better spell casting infinitely more for a vast majority of the game, especially if you plan on 2 runs.

Zyzzogeton

Dual.

I'd only Multi for a utility class (Thief, Cleric) and only in non-HoF. And even then it depends on the rest of your party.

Wanderon

I love the elf multi for both F/M and F/T especially with the + 1 to bows and long swords - I have one of each in my current party - both are great archers and I get to use their mage and thief classes for the entire game and their fighter classes continue to upgrade for the whole game.

Redrake

Wanderon said:

I love the elf multi for both F/M and F/T especially with the + 1 to bows and long swords - I have one of each in my current party - both are great archers and I get to use their mage and thief classes for the entire game and their fighter classes continue to upgrade for the whole game.

+1 thac0 is all very good, but that -1 Con really hurts them as multiclass fighters. I'd rather go for a half-elf.

jackjack

Redrake said:

Wanderon said:

I love the elf multi for both F/M and F/T especially with the + 1 to bows and long swords - I have one of each in my current party - both are great archers and I get to use their mage and thief classes for the entire game and their fighter classes continue to upgrade for the whole game.

+1 thac0 is all very good, but that -1 Con really hurts them as multiclass fighters. I'd rather go for a half-elf.

But on an Archer, -1 Con isn't nearly as much of a problem as it would be on a front-liner.

Wanderon

jackjack said:

Redrake said:

Wanderon said:

I love the elf multi for both F/M and F/T especially with the + 1 to bows and long swords - I have one of each in my current party - both are great archers and I get to use their mage and thief classes for the entire game and their fighter classes continue to upgrade for the whole game.

+1 thac0 is all very good, but that -1 Con really hurts them as multiclass fighters. I'd rather go for a half-elf.

But on an Archer, -1 Con isn't nearly as much of a problem as it would be on a front-liner.

And the 90% resistance to charm & sleep spells vs 30% for half-elf might come into play as well...

Jarrakul

Also note that it's +2 THAC0, because 19 Dex and +1 to hit with swords and bows.

Personally, I'd probably go with the multi, actually. THAC0 is pretty important in IWD, and wizard spells... aren't. Losing grandmastery is unfortunate, but its benefits don't help much if you can't hit anything because your THAC0 never improves past ~6.

Zyzzogeton

Fighter duals can easily hit things with buffs. They already provide Emotion Hope and Courage

A Cleric will drive THAC0 even lower.

Enemies in this game don't have a abysmally low AC values.

Proteus

Wowo said:

I don't see any benefit to the multiclass. In fact, for an archer, I don't see much benefit to going past level 7 fighter (for a nice round amount of attacks per round. Just for proficienes make sure that you level to wizard 5 and then don't take another wizard level until you have enough xp for wizard 8 so that you can get Grandmastery in bows with your level 6 pip.

You'll appreciate the higher damage and better spell casting infinitely more for a vast majority of the game, especially if you plan on 2 runs.

Don't I get another 1/2 attack at Fighter 9? Which is why I'm dualing at that level. Or does this not affect bows?

Also, I'm allowed to delay leveling to save for proficiency slots?

FinneousPJ

@Proteus No, you get attacks at 7 and 13.

Wowo

Proteus said:

Wowo said:

I don't see any benefit to the multiclass. In fact, for an archer, I don't see much benefit to going past level 7 fighter (for a nice round amount of attacks per round. Just for proficienes make sure that you level to wizard 5 and then don't take another wizard level until you have enough xp for wizard 8 so that you can get Grandmastery in bows with your level 6 pip.

You'll appreciate the higher damage and better spell casting infinitely more for a vast majority of the game, especially if you plan on 2 runs.

Don't I get another 1/2 attack at Fighter 9? Which is why I'm dualing at that level. Or does this not affect bows?

Also, I'm allowed to delay leveling to save for proficiency slots?

Bonus attacks @7 and 13 as mentioned. 9 is the quickest level for Grandmastery but you can get it at wizard 8 anyway by saving your xp and jumping directly from wizard 5 to wizard 8.

Usual reason to go to 9 (or 13) in IWD is if you have the kensei kit and are playing a level 1 HoF party.

Proteus

Wowo said:

Bonus attacks @7 and 13 as mentioned. 9 is the quickest level for Grandmastery but you can get it at wizard 8 anyway by saving your xp and jumping directly from wizard 5 to wizard 8.

Usual reason to go to 9 (or 13) in IWD is if you have the kensei kit and are playing a level 1 HoF party.

Ok I have a different question now. I was intending to make a Berserker(13)/Mage(X) for melee. I chose 13 because that's the level I got to with my Kensai/Mage in BG2. Am I better off dualing at another level with Berserker?

FinneousPJ

The only downside to 13 is the massive XP cost. You have to decide if it's worth it.

Wowo

Proteus said:

Wowo said:

Bonus attacks @7 and 13 as mentioned. 9 is the quickest level for Grandmastery but you can get it at wizard 8 anyway by saving your xp and jumping directly from wizard 5 to wizard 8.

Usual reason to go to 9 (or 13) in IWD is if you have the kensei kit and are playing a level 1 HoF party.

Ok I have a different question now. I was intending to make a Berserker(13)/Mage(X) for melee. I chose 13 because that's the level I got to with my Kensai/Mage in BG2. Am I better off dualing at another level with Berserker?

Probably not worth it. For a berserker/Mage you'll probably get the most enjoyment from a berserker 7/Mage as you end up with the same amount of attacks in almost all situations which is the main reason to go to 13 usually.

If you did want to go to 13 I'd recommend a kensei. I have a kensei 13/Mage in my level 1 HoF party and she's done pretty great. Main reason I didn't dual her at 9 (a good break point for kensei for the extra damage) is because I had 2 other kensei dualing at 9 so she stayed to provide the damage while they were finishing the dual.

Overall though even with a kensei 13/Mage in a fast leveling HoF party I can't honestly say that it was worth it. Berserker 7 or kensei 9 duals are where it's at.

Be warned that with such a party you'll probably find that it's too easy once the duals are completed.

Zyzzogeton

Having a Fighter makes the game easy period as long as the Mages (preferrably Sorcerers) and Clerics are casting the right spells.

Kensai bonuses are good but they're just another bonus when you factor in all the bonuses the game lets you pile up on Fighters.

And since this is Normal Mode, even a Sorc with 18 STR and 18/19 DEX using slings already performs ridiculously well. A Fighter with proficiencies and Fighter APR is going to melt things. Although as far as Normal Mode is concerned, damage spells are usually better most of the time.

MrGoodkat

If you don't plan on using your character in melee, Fighter 7 / Mage X is probably the way to go from a purely powergaming point of view. Maybe Fighter 9 if you want to go straight for Grandmastery without having to squat Mage levels later on.

Is your party already set in stone? If not you might want to consider going for a pure Archer instead. These guys are *insanely* strong. The only things is a bit of a pain in the ass in IWD:EE is the lack of an unlimited source of +1/+2 arrows.

Proteus

MrGoodkat said:

If you don't plan on using your character in melee, Fighter 7 / Mage X is probably the way to go from a purely powergaming point of view. Maybe Fighter 9 if you want to go straight for Grandmastery without having to squat Mage levels later on.

Is your party already set in stone? If not you might want to consider going for a pure Archer instead. These guys are *insanely* strong. The only things is a bit of a pain in the ass in IWD:EE is the lack of an unlimited source of +1/+2 arrows.

Arrows are limited? That's not good news - I originally intended to have 2 ranged characters seeing how there are an abundance of good bows in the game. Would you recommend another type of ranged weapon to deal with the ammo issues?

Wowo

I'd recommend roughly 3 front liners and 3 ranged. Of those 3 ranged I'd more lean towards casting spells rather than actually using a ranged weapon.

For a normal run I'd suggest some combination of Skald, bard, Avenger Druid, Archer, Sorcerer or Fighter 7/Mage for the back line.

For HoF it's a bit different and there's a whole thread with ideas.

I wouldn't do 2 runs with the same party. Each run would just end up too easy. Instead I'd suggest to make a core appropriate party and play core. Then you can make a HoF appropriate party and run HoF.

jackjack

Proteus said:

Would you recommend another type of ranged weapon to deal with the ammo issues?

I would. I have an Archer firing arrows and an Illusionist/Thief firing bolts. It's worked very well so far. I had a Bard wielding a shortbow for a bit, but ever since he bought the Lyre of Progression, that bow sits in his inventory.

MrGoodkat

Proteus said:

MrGoodkat said:

If you don't plan on using your character in melee, Fighter 7 / Mage X is probably the way to go from a purely powergaming point of view. Maybe Fighter 9 if you want to go straight for Grandmastery without having to squat Mage levels later on.

Is your party already set in stone? If not you might want to consider going for a pure Archer instead. These guys are *insanely* strong. The only things is a bit of a pain in the ass in IWD:EE is the lack of an unlimited source of +1/+2 arrows.

Arrows are limited? That's not good news - I originally intended to have 2 ranged characters seeing how there are an abundance of good bows in the game. Would you recommend another type of ranged weapon to deal with the ammo issues?

Enchanted arrows, yes. Definitely would recommend to take another type of weapon for your other ranged character.

Proteus

Alright so after some consideration I've decided to modify my party to instead include a Thief (9)/Mage (X) dual class using crossbows, and a single class Archer using longbows. Thanks for all the replies people.

Wowo

Proteus said:

Alright so after some consideration I've decided to modify my party to instead include a Thief (9)/Mage (X) dual class using crossbows, and a single class Archer using longbows. Thanks for all the replies people.

I have a similar build but I used the assassin kit for that oh so awesome poison weapon ability on ranged attacks. Little bit tricky to cap out all necessary skills but it's doable. Don't need hide/ms with 3e sneak attack active. Single weapon style and the new katana combined with sneak attack is actually really fun and engaging.

ameliaboggins

its situational, but i find my F/M/Thief can kill most things.

only really tuff mobs or grps that i bother to pull the mobs back to the grp.

the tap heal shortsword from burial isle is great for tanking with.....rarely dips under 70% health.

Add in the robe from malavon(imm to confusion) and hes my main char for killing underhulks.

Not my main tank, but decent melee dps. [4APR unhasted] Lower hps might put some off...