Thief skill points question

Proteus

Is there a reason to raise any of my Thief's skills to over 100?

jackjack

Hide in Shadows and Move Silently benefit from going over 100, as does Pick Pockets. Outside of that, I believe you're wasting Thief points.

Proteus

jackjack said:

Hide in Shadows and Move Silently benefit from going over 100, as does Pick Pockets. Outside of that, I believe you're wasting Thief points.

But I'm fine leaving Pick Pockets at 100 right? Is there any situation where I need an obscene number just to steal something from an npc?

elminster

As it stands now in IWDEE Pick Pocket doesn't benefit from putting much of anything to it. From the looks of things you can pickpocket an enemy for their rings/amulets with only 10 Pick Pocket, you just have a very, very, very low chance of actually pulling it off. So 50-60 points toward it should suffice.

Since you can't actual steal from stores (you can just steal from the personal inventories of store owners) I'd say that the only thief skills that benefit from you putting more than 100 to are Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Even then I'm doing a runthrough with a shadowdancer at the moment and even when she had 130 in each she rarely every failed (you spend a lot of time indoors in the game). So the benefit you get from that is pretty limited as far as I'm concerned (and you'll pick up items that will help with this anyways).

So basically if you are playing a single-class thief in particular (unless you are playing as an assassin) expect to have a fair bit of extra thieving skills that won't really benefit you.

Proteus

elminster said:

So basically if you are playing a single-class thief in particular (unless you are playing as an assassin) expect to have a fair bit of extra thieving skills that won't really benefit you.

Yeah that's pretty much my concern right there. Was comparing a dualed Assassin to a dualed Thief regarding how much I'd be losing from less thieving skills.

elminster

Depends on when you plan on dual classing I suppose (and what you plan on dual classing into). Plus what you want out of the thief (utility abilities like Open Locks and Find Traps, combat abilities like Set Traps and stealth).

Proteus

elminster said:

Depends on when you plan on dual classing I suppose (and what you plan on dual classing into). Plus what you want out of the thief (utility abilities like Open Locks and Find Traps, combat abilities like Set Traps and stealth).

Dualing to mage. I guess the only thing I really need is Find Traps. Open Locks and PP can be augmented by Potions of Power and combat abilities substituted by spells.

Wowo

Proteus said:

elminster said:

Depends on when you plan on dual classing I suppose (and what you plan on dual classing into). Plus what you want out of the thief (utility abilities like Open Locks and Find Traps, combat abilities like Set Traps and stealth).

Dualing to mage. I guess the only thing I really need is Find Traps. Open Locks and PP can be augmented by Potions of Power and combat abilities substituted by spells.

I did a dual assassin 12/Mage. 12 is a good break point for assassin as there's nice sneak attack, crippling strike and enough points to basically max out find traps, open lock and set traps.

Unless you're playing HoF I can't recommend set traps enough.

12 is high for a dual so I'd only recommend it for a small party and/or insane difficulty.

Proteus

Wowo said:

I did a dual assassin 12/Mage. 12 is a good break point for assassin as there's nice sneak attack, crippling strike and enough points to basically max out find traps, open lock and set traps.

Unless you're playing HoF I can't recommend set traps enough.

12 is high for a dual so I'd only recommend it for a small party and/or insane difficulty.

Traps are useful for HoF? I was intending to dual at 9, skip the traps and use spells instead.

Zyzzogeton

Compared to spells? No.

I wouldn't even bother with Sneak Attack and Crippling Strike on a Thief>Mage. However some argument can be made for Mislead Backstab. Not a lot, but if you want other sweet spots for Thief to Mage aside from Find Traps 100, the Backstab multipliers are that.

Wowo

Proteus said:

Wowo said:

I did a dual assassin 12/Mage. 12 is a good break point for assassin as there's nice sneak attack, crippling strike and enough points to basically max out find traps, open lock and set traps.

Unless you're playing HoF I can't recommend set traps enough.

12 is high for a dual so I'd only recommend it for a small party and/or insane difficulty.

Traps are useful for HoF? I was intending to dual at 9, skip the traps and use spells instead.

Reread what I wrote.

Poison weapon is great for a ranged character which was the main reason I went for assassin kit.

Set traps is great for non-HoF games. Like, amazing for fights that would otherwise be really difficult.

Probably dualing earlier would be better. Cats grace and gond belt can round things out.

Zyzzogeton

Set traps is great for non-HoF games. Like, amazing for fights that would otherwise be really difficult.

Except for how Thief>Mage already has AoE damage. And that it's an additional 4 levels or 6 levels to max it out to 100. So more downtime, which without HoF's boosted XP is a fairly long time.

And once the Thief class finally gets reactivated the Mage would already have lots ways to deal AoE damage to enemies if not already wiping out entire mob packs with just their spells alone.

Wowo

Zyzzogeton said:

Set traps is great for non-HoF games. Like, amazing for fights that would otherwise be really difficult.

Except for how Thief>Mage already has AoE damage. And that it's an additional 4 levels or 6 levels to max it out to 100. So more downtime, which without HoF's boosted XP is a fairly long time.

And once the Thief class finally gets reactivated the Mage would already have lots ways to deal AoE damage to enemies if not already wiping out entire mob packs with just their spells alone.

Set Traps is always an out of combat activity so doesn't intrude on the characters primary role. Traps are great for many fights which you can prepare for including just about every time you want to rest and fear being disturbed.

I like it anyway, it's not something that anyone can be convinced of until they try it but for me I need a really compelling reason not to put all of my level 1 thief points into set traps (which is enough to be decent).

Zyzzogeton

The character's primary role (spellcasting) already handles the job of AoE damage if we're talking non-HoF.

Also Invisibility 10' Radius works if you want to rest without danger.

kensai

I hasn't play a thief class in iwd yet, but if enemies will see you, they follow you everywhere even on another location. So the idea is to set traps in area (and don't forget skull traps, glyphs, delayed firebals) and then lure an enemy to this location.
I guess that should helps even in HOF

elminster

Wowo said:

Set Traps is always an out of combat activity so doesn't intrude on the characters primary role. Traps are great for many fights which you can prepare for including just about every time you want to rest and fear being disturbed.

I like it anyway, it's not something that anyone can be convinced of until they try it but for me I need a really compelling reason not to put all of my level 1 thief points into set traps (which is enough to be decent).

Plus they bypass magic resistance and have no saving throw requirements. A lot of enemies in Heart of Winter have magic resistance (Remorhaz), low saving throws, or a mix of both (Ice Golem Sentry).

Zyzzogeton

They also only deal 2D8+5 unless you dual at Level 11 or later.

Or an average of 14 damage.

A Skull Trap or any of the LevelD6 damage spells cast by a Level 8 Mage deals that much damage on average if saved against.