R.A. Salvatore fans - kitting Athrogate

Enilwyn

Which way would you go? Pure fighter, zerker, or something else?

Thanks in advance!

kcwise

As far as the books go I'd say he seems like a pure fighter, but he might have some sort of dwarven specific kit (dwarven defender seems unlikely, though). Since he's described as wearing armor in the books a kensai would be out. I don't think berserker fits either.

So, pure fighter would be my best guess.

Michail

I'd say pure figter too. Dual wielding and association with thieves made me think of some ranger kit at some point, but he wears armor, and that doesn't quite fit. Beserker doesn't fit either, for the same reason.

Yannir

Going Athrogate is more an RP-thing than about kits. A pure fighter would suffice. You might mod a custom voice to him, add some annoying rhymes for combat. A strenght belt and dual-wieding flails. I could never imagine Athrogate with any jewelry either. What do you guys make he is alignment-wise?

"I'll tickle yer bits with me flails" or that all-consuming laugh he has.

kcwise

I've seen some people describe him as Chaotic Neutral, probably because of his occasional bizarre behavior, but I'd say he's closer to Neutral Evil.

Yannir

kcwise said:

I've seen some people describe him as Chaotic Neutral, probably because of his occasional bizarre behavior, but I'd say he's closer to Neutral Evil.

I don't know, Athrogate doesn't come across as evil to me. He doesnt really want people harm, he just doesnt care about it if something he does ends up hurting someone. He even supports and sides with king Bruenor occasionally.

I'd go with True Neutral if it wasn't so specifically built for druids. He doesn't care about balance and doesnt care if something he does is good or bad. He protects his friends, like Jarlaxle, on several occasions, and almost gets killed for it a few times too. Maybe just plain Neutral would be the best description.

Wowo

Yannir said:

kcwise said:

I've seen some people describe him as Chaotic Neutral, probably because of his occasional bizarre behavior, but I'd say he's closer to Neutral Evil.

I don't know, Athrogate doesn't come across as evil to me. He doesnt really want people harm, he just doesnt care about it if something he does ends up hurting someone. He even supports and sides with king Bruenor occasionally.

I'd go with True Neutral if it wasn't so specifically built for druids. He doesn't care about balance and doesnt care if something he does is good or bad. He protects his friends, like Jarlaxle, on several occasions, and almost gets killed for it a few times too. Maybe just plain Neutral would be the best description.

As an outsider who doesn't know the character I can observe fans tend to assume their favourite characters aren't evil even when there is significant or even overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If he was to be neutral evil or chaotic evil it wouldn't require him to embody the alignment as that is the purview of daemons and demons. Instead, consider if he acts in his own self interest, does he care about other people in general, do his loyalties further his own interests, does he enjoy inflicting pain, does he revel in the chaos of battle and does he exhibit sympathy and empathy for others?

Yannir

@Wowo I'm going to answer each one separately.

"if he acts in his own self interest" He does, but this is a neutral attribute in any case. Selfishness is not evil.

"does he care about other people in general" He cares about those close to him. He isn't a good guy, and so, he doesn't care about strangers. But he doesn't betray his friends either, even to further his own goals.

"do his loyalties further his own interests" Maybe. He doesnt really have any He likes to fight. Sometimes for the benefit of dwarves. And personal glory is probably his main goal.

"does he enjoy inflicting pain" He enjoys the challenge of overcoming enemies. Just like many of us do.

"does he revel in the chaos of battle" Not the chaos but as I said, he likes the challenge.

"does he exhibit sympathy and empathy for others" Not really. Then again, empathy and sympathy are attributes of good people, not neutral ones. I rarely sympathize or empathize with people but I dont actively try to harm anyone either. I don't even do practical jokes because I hate the idea of ME causing someone even minor discomfort. I don't want any part in it.

PS and FYI, Athrogate isn't one of my favourites, he annoys the heck out of me with that bloody rhyming. And I consider myself to be of Lawful Neutral alignment. (as a side-note)

Wowo

Self interest without considering consequences to others is evil , not neutral.

Sympathy and empathy are neutral qualities as well. A neutral person does consider how their actions affect others and empathy is required to do that and sympathy is required for the neutral person to make a judgement call not to further their own interests at the expense of others.

Yannir

Wowo said:

Self interest without considering consequences to others is evil , not neutral.

Sympathy and empathy are neutral qualities as well. A neutral person does consider how their actions affect others and empathy is required to do that and sympathy is required for the neutral person to make a judgement call not to further their own interests at the expense of others.

Yes I agree that, if that selfishness brings harm to others, is evil.
However, take a situation where you find a winning lottery ticket in the street and the winning person's name is on the ticket. Now, a good person will either return it to the winner or donate the money to charity, depending on whether they are chaotic or lawful.
A neutral person will either return the money or keep it, depending on if they know this person or not. The lottery ticket didn't cost much to the actual winner, so they don't actually lose much. And a neutral person is simply not willing to go through the trouble of finding some complete stranger. Many times they will just choose the easy way.
An evil person doesnt even need to choose, they keep the money of course.

Taking others into consideration has nothing to do with either sympathy nor empathy. It's exactly what it is, consideration, and has nothing to do with emotions like sympathy or empathy. It's an intent rather than a feeling.
Sympathy is an ability to imagine how others feel, empathetic people actually feel some of what others feel.

Truly good and evil people are exceedingly rare in the real world.

Yannir

Or actually, that's poorly put. Sympathy or empathy may be a motivation behind consideration. Consideration can also be a rational choice, doing what's right is not necessarily tied to how you feel. And then there's the lawful-to-chaotic axis that makes the world a nice twist of grey shades.

Enilwyn

Nice chat you two have going. I have seen him aligned as chaotic neutral (can't remember where, FR Wikia maybe). Initially he is described more as a mercenary, but very slowly morphs into more than a money for hire type.

I like him because as of now, we can fill in a lot of the blanks of how we'd RP him. Other than his magic belt and flails he is rather simple. No mounts so the hell boar doesn't add much.

Blades

Well, consider Jarlaxle his companion. Compare from there....