As much as it might be cool to have monk specific HLA's they are already very powerful at these levels. So it would have to come with taking at least some fighter HLA's away from them.
That is waaaaaaaaay op. Should just condense it into "for the next 5 years, monk kills anything it hits, bypassing all magical and non-magical defenses, and can't be killed" lol
More OP than Critical Strike + Harm? More OP than Kai + Greater Whirlwind? More OP than Time Stop + Shapechange: Mind Flayer? More OP than Chain Contingency: 3 x Horrid Wiltings? The game isn't really geared for balance to begin with. To be fair I would have much preferred the ethereal power, whirlwind kick, and flurry blows to be put in instead, but alas this is not 3e. Also would say that they get rid of all their fighter HLAs in exchange for the new ones, which means that Greater Whirlwind is gone, and monks are forever with 5 APR (or 6 with Oil of Speed). Dragon Strike and Solar Stance are the only abilities I consider seriously powerful out of those options above other classes. These at least give monks some USEFUL HLAs
Only thing that I would even consider questionable is the earlier magic fists progression. And even then, is it really? The monk would still have like, 1d8 fists by the time he would get a +1 enchantment. So he has a +1 longsword? You can get a +2 longsword not even 3 hours into the game of BG1 if you bee-line to Nashkel. +2; and a few other +2 weapons you can get in or the areas around Beregost at early levels. At level 9? Well at least he can actually put up a fight against a few early Rakshasas or Vampires instead of cowering in fear in the backline or, god forbid, fighting up in melee with a weapon having only 1 APR without the option of being hasted.
The whole "hideously overpowered things exist, therefore nothing short of them is overpowered" has a fundamental flaw. That being, when something is a problem, the solution is not to add more of it.
Now, as for the mod HLAs being strong, you're right that Dragon Strike and Solar Stance are seriously powerful. Solar Stance especially just does so many good things at once. It's like half of what you need a mage for in one ability. Shadow Stance is also pretty nuts, because it's not affected by True Sight. It's basically a "can't be targeted by spells" button, which is just insanely good. Especially combined with Flip Resistances (which, I would argue, is plenty powerful on its own). Second Wind sounds like a self-only Heal spell, which might be fine if it has Heal's casting time. I suspect it doesn't, though, in which case it's waaaay better than any other defensive HLA.
I actually find the faster magic fist progression to be the most sensible thing on the list. Even the fast version puts the monk at the low-end of what my fighters will have that the equivalent level.
I've been thinking and there's actually nothing wrong with many of the abilities but they need to be tweaked a bit.
Shadow stance fe. lasts way too long, 24 rounds is a long time in combat. It should be an escape ability, or a means to get an easy hit. 4 rounds + 1 round/5 levels of monk. If this started at lvl 1, it would make this ability 12 rounds on lvl 30.
Another example, Solar and Lunar stance should only be available to Dark Moon and Sun Soul monks respectively. Solar stance only for Sun Soul monks and so on.
Second Wind should be available to all classes with Lay On Hands-ability. This includes paladins but excludes Dark Moon Monks. Probably should be renamed for pallies though.
Well, if we're proposing changes, I can work with that. I'd change the following.
Dragon Fist: Limit to the effectiveness of a Breach spell. Still a good ability for a warrior to have, but not quite a "mage is naked now" button.
Faster than the Eye: This should probably go away, just for sequence breaking reasons. Although maybe change it to "instantly teleport to the location of any ally".
Flip Resistances: Resistance is reduced by 20%. This puts the ability more on par with Hardiness, being slightly stronger but also decreasing magic resistance (not as much of a disadvantage as you might think, since in most fights you're primarily worried about either spells or physical damage, not both).
Solar Stance: Remove the saving throw reduction. The fireball damage is subject to balancing, obviously, but can probably be pretty high if it's not party-friendly.
Shadow Stance: Reduce duration to 3 rounds. Maybe 2. This ability is just incredibly powerful against enemy casters, so letting it last even as little as, say, 10 rounds is too much.
Second Wind: Use Heal's full casting time. Or possibly provide an additional use of Lay On Hands instead, but LOH is actually really strong at high levels, so that might be too powerful.
And honestly, even with all that, I'd say the monk would still have much better HLA options than warriors or clerics.
I have a monk on lvl 35, just before the last arena fight on BP2, he has -24 Base AC. And that's the cap. And that's -23 without any gear. Even having hardiness on top of that is a bit much. The HLA's definitely weren't built for monks..
"Shadowless Kick This kick throws the target back, knocks the target unconscious, and deals 4d8 points of damage."
I say, take the damage away, a knockback is alrdy a great ability. Especially against mages.
"Tiger Strike A more powerful form of Shadowless Kick, this power ensures every blow for the next round is a critical hit. In addition, every blow for the next two rounds throws the target back and knocks the target unconscious. Prerequisite: Shadowless Kick."
Why would you even want to have the target knocked back here? If you're critting, you want to keep critting, not chasing after your enemy. So, take the knockback away from this one. Add a short stun so it's not Critical Strikes.
"Dragon Fist With a blow, the monk strips away the magical protections of the target."
Instead of having the strike strip away defenses, why not have an ability that bypasses the defenses a single time? Would make a great interrupt ability.
that mod basically makes it so a monk could solo ToB with ease in my opinion, now I know lots of people have solo'ed the whole series with one character before and all that good jargon but this would just make it way easier
"Feet of the Wind Each time this ability is chosen, it greatly and permanently increases the monk's movement rate."
This is completely useless, a monk alrdy moves at the same speed as someone who is IH'd.
"Faster Than The Eye By concentrating briefly on another area within 4000 feet, the monk can instantly transport herself there. Prerequisite: Feet of the Wind."
I think this could be like Teleport Without Error, so you can teleport to any friend or foe instantly. Around 100 feet range.
"Solar Stance Solar Stance renders nearby enemies more vulnerable, reducing the saving throws of any within 60 feet of the monk by 4. It creates a cloud of glittering golden particles that fill the air for twenty feet around the monk, revealing invisible creatures. All enemies in the cloud must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or be blinded (-4 to attack rolls, saving throws, and Armor Class) until the dust fades, after 4 rounds. Also, a blast of fire emanates from the monk, scorching and throwing back everyone in a 30-foot radius, though the stance protects the monk from the flames. Prerequisite: Tiger Strike."
Take away the saving throw penalties AND the fireball effect. It's still a combined True Sight+area Blind(no other ability in the game can even do that). Reduce range to 30 or 40 feet. It coul be called Solar Blast?
Lunar Stance is actually very solid and balanced, and Shadow Stance gets less OP with reduced duration.
Take away the saving throw penalties AND the fireball effect. It's still a combined True Sight+area Blind(no other ability in the game can even do that). Reduce range to 30 or 40 feet. It coul be called Solar Blast
Actually there is one other ability in the game that does very precisely that. It's called Glitterdust, and it's a 2nd level spell. Hence my thinking that we should aim somewhat higher.
Really? I always remember Glitterdust as a weak version of True Sight..
You're probably right anyway. If you keep the fireball but ditch the knockback? The blinds should be stacking as well, and as such, you don't want enemies to leave the area you just blasted.
fish0331
Member Posts: 197
Comments
Just gonna leave this here...
Only thing that I would even consider questionable is the earlier magic fists progression. And even then, is it really? The monk would still have like, 1d8 fists by the time he would get a +1 enchantment. So he has a +1 longsword? You can get a +2 longsword not even 3 hours into the game of BG1 if you bee-line to Nashkel. +2; and a few other +2 weapons you can get in or the areas around Beregost at early levels. At level 9? Well at least he can actually put up a fight against a few early Rakshasas or Vampires instead of cowering in fear in the backline or, god forbid, fighting up in melee with a weapon having only 1 APR without the option of being hasted.
Now, as for the mod HLAs being strong, you're right that Dragon Strike and Solar Stance are seriously powerful. Solar Stance especially just does so many good things at once. It's like half of what you need a mage for in one ability. Shadow Stance is also pretty nuts, because it's not affected by True Sight. It's basically a "can't be targeted by spells" button, which is just insanely good. Especially combined with Flip Resistances (which, I would argue, is plenty powerful on its own). Second Wind sounds like a self-only Heal spell, which might be fine if it has Heal's casting time. I suspect it doesn't, though, in which case it's waaaay better than any other defensive HLA.
I actually find the faster magic fist progression to be the most sensible thing on the list. Even the fast version puts the monk at the low-end of what my fighters will have that the equivalent level.
Shadow stance fe. lasts way too long, 24 rounds is a long time in combat. It should be an escape ability, or a means to get an easy hit. 4 rounds + 1 round/5 levels of monk. If this started at lvl 1, it would make this ability 12 rounds on lvl 30.
Another example, Solar and Lunar stance should only be available to Dark Moon and Sun Soul monks respectively. Solar stance only for Sun Soul monks and so on.
Second Wind should be available to all classes with Lay On Hands-ability. This includes paladins but excludes Dark Moon Monks. Probably should be renamed for pallies though.
Dragon Fist: Limit to the effectiveness of a Breach spell. Still a good ability for a warrior to have, but not quite a "mage is naked now" button.
Faster than the Eye: This should probably go away, just for sequence breaking reasons. Although maybe change it to "instantly teleport to the location of any ally".
Flip Resistances: Resistance is reduced by 20%. This puts the ability more on par with Hardiness, being slightly stronger but also decreasing magic resistance (not as much of a disadvantage as you might think, since in most fights you're primarily worried about either spells or physical damage, not both).
Solar Stance: Remove the saving throw reduction. The fireball damage is subject to balancing, obviously, but can probably be pretty high if it's not party-friendly.
Shadow Stance: Reduce duration to 3 rounds. Maybe 2. This ability is just incredibly powerful against enemy casters, so letting it last even as little as, say, 10 rounds is too much.
Second Wind: Use Heal's full casting time. Or possibly provide an additional use of Lay On Hands instead, but LOH is actually really strong at high levels, so that might be too powerful.
And honestly, even with all that, I'd say the monk would still have much better HLA options than warriors or clerics.
This kick throws the target back, knocks the target unconscious, and deals 4d8 points of damage."
I say, take the damage away, a knockback is alrdy a great ability. Especially against mages.
"Tiger Strike
A more powerful form of Shadowless Kick, this power ensures every blow for the next round is a critical hit. In addition, every blow for the next two rounds throws the target back and knocks the target unconscious.
Prerequisite: Shadowless Kick."
Why would you even want to have the target knocked back here? If you're critting, you want to keep critting, not chasing after your enemy. So, take the knockback away from this one. Add a short stun so it's not Critical Strikes.
"Dragon Fist
With a blow, the monk strips away the magical protections of the target."
Instead of having the strike strip away defenses, why not have an ability that bypasses the defenses a single time? Would make a great interrupt ability.
Each time this ability is chosen, it greatly and permanently increases the monk's movement rate."
This is completely useless, a monk alrdy moves at the same speed as someone who is IH'd.
"Faster Than The Eye
By concentrating briefly on another area within 4000 feet, the monk can instantly transport herself there.
Prerequisite: Feet of the Wind."
I think this could be like Teleport Without Error, so you can teleport to any friend or foe instantly. Around 100 feet range.
"Solar Stance
Solar Stance renders nearby enemies more vulnerable, reducing the saving throws of any within 60 feet of the monk by 4. It creates a cloud of glittering golden particles that fill the air for twenty feet around the monk, revealing invisible creatures. All enemies in the cloud must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or be blinded (-4 to attack rolls, saving throws, and Armor Class) until the dust fades, after 4 rounds. Also, a blast of fire emanates from the monk, scorching and throwing back everyone in a 30-foot radius, though the stance protects the monk from the flames.
Prerequisite: Tiger Strike."
Take away the saving throw penalties AND the fireball effect. It's still a combined True Sight+area Blind(no other ability in the game can even do that). Reduce range to 30 or 40 feet. It coul be called Solar Blast?
Lunar Stance is actually very solid and balanced, and Shadow Stance gets less OP with reduced duration.
You're probably right anyway. If you keep the fireball but ditch the knockback? The blinds should be stacking as well, and as such, you don't want enemies to leave the area you just blasted.