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Bug fixes VS Player Experience and Game Balance. Cernd issues.

First I discovered that they removed the constitution bonus from Greater Werewolf form and other shapeshifting to prevent death when characters switched back. I thought "Ok that's a bit annoying for me but if characters were dying I can see why they fixed it". So after having to find, install and learn to use EEkeeper just to give him his constitution back (25 instead of 13), I carried on playing with Cernd.

Standard Cernd is not a popular character by any means. He is often criticised for being worse than other NPCs and a lot of people find him boring. I have used him a lot and the key feature that made me ABLE to use him at higher levels was being able to dispel his claws and use a weapon instead. Even when doing this it basically just made him into a mediocre warrior with limited weapon selection but I liked his character and wanted to use him.

Now I come to play in 1.3 and find that they have made it impossible to dispel shapeshifting weapons. So now my greater werewolf Cernd is permanently stuck with his 1d6 puppy claws.

It is clear that their ability to be dispelled has been deemed a bug and I understand that the idea is to clean up bugs wherever you find them. They have truly done a great job in terms of quality of life fixes, game clarity and ease of use changes.

That being said I feel like these particular changes have really affected the balance of Shapeshifters in the game and have made them EVEN weaker than they were before. Bug fixes are great but changes that effect game balance and player experience should be thought about more carefully.

It is frustrating that in an Enhanced Edition an NPC is just flat out worse than he was in the original game. This makes players even less likely to take him than before. The idea that If I played the unenhanced version I would have a better experience using that character seems crazy to me.

Are other people also frustrated by this?

Comments

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    Its a mix of good and bad. They should have left constitution bonuses alone in my opinion when it came to shapechanges/shapeshifts, but the dispel bug was a fair one to get rid of. Giving Greater werewolfs the same claws that they give them now in IWDEE (1d10 slashing) probably would make sense (though I'd prefer it in that case if they did slashing or piercing- depending upon which is best), but I guess we will have to wait and see if they do that.

    That being said compared to the original game Cernd now has

    1) Elemental resistances that now stack with other bonuses while he is in form
    2) A fixed Conjure Fire Elemental spell that just got a big boost towards the strength bonus the elementals get (the 16 hit dice fire elemental for instance went from I believe having 14 strength to now having 20).
    3) Druids who equip the Staff of Arundel will now retain the spells they gain when in form. In the original if you had the staff equipped and transformed you lost that extra 5th and 6th spell. This made transforming Cernd to be a real pain since you had to re-memorize them and then rest to get back those spells.
  • NytramNytram Member Posts: 13
    I just don't understand how the removal of claw dispel impacts any player positively when using a Shapeshifter. What's the purpose of removing it if it doesn't improve the game for the player?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited December 2014
    Nytram said:

    I just don't understand how the removal of claw dispel impacts any player positively when using a Shapeshifter. What's the purpose of removing it if it doesn't improve the game for the player?

    Its part of a broader bug that affected all shapechange or shapeshifted characters. So for instance a Mind Flayer (from the mage spell) character in the past could have gotten hit by a dispel magic and lost their ability to intelligence drain on hit (while still maintaining all resistances and attacks per round associated with being a mind flayer). Similarly you could be attacking someone as a mustard jelly and thanks to a dispel magic being cast you now are attacking them with the bow you used to have equipped. It was just a really buggy behaviour that has now been fixed.
  • SionaSiona Member Posts: 79
    Because not everyone is a powergamer, and its pretty silly to imagine a friendly werewolf, standing in front of a caster, who has dispel magic cast on his paws and they are instantly replaced by scimitars poking out of the stumps where his claws just were.

    I won't go into my usual diatribe about how shapeshifters are underrated (although they are), but I really do agree that they should get the iwdee stats. Between that and the better spells, its all I want for Christmas :)

    I must be the only person who thinks they're balanced just right. I would complain if it weren't for the fact that the slightly gimped werewolf can also instantly shift into a full powered druid, something the "ungimped" werewolves can't do ;)

    Then again, maybe I'm just being prissy because I have a migraine. If so then I apologize mate. At least you try with the class and make your decision, which I can respect completely.
  • NytramNytram Member Posts: 13
    @Siona I knew the powergamer aspect would pop up. I do admit that I like to powergame my characters. But it's usually just that I want to make the characters that I like the most be the best they can be. For example, I have never liked Korgan's personality so I never take him even though he is arguably the best tank in the game. I would much rather use Cernd and use what is available to make him compete with Korgan. The claw removal was a feature I really liked having because it let me use him more effectively.

    As for the friendly werewolf bit I think anyone can describe anything to make it sound ridiculous or plausible. For example, maybe when they first transform their hands become extremely bestial (think standard werewolf horror with bones cracking as they extend etc). Maybe dispel magic makes their hands slightly more human again, allowing the Shapeshifter to grip objects such as a weapon. It's all about how you imagine the scenario playing out when dispel magic is cast.
  • SionaSiona Member Posts: 79
    edited December 2014
    Fair enough mate. Wasn't trying to be critical of you at all, and I apologize if I came across that way at all. I just have a different perspective and thought I'd share in my semi coherent state. But you are also completely right from your style. Cheers mate.

    Edit: perhaps migraines don't make the best times to post ;)
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