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If my Bladesinger mod is a bard kit, then...

1) Is there any way to disable the bard song button?

2) Any way to change his spell progression from bard->FM? I can get mage HLA no problem, but can't ever cast spells past level 6.

3) Same as 2, but prof rate from bard->FM? (I did edit claswpbon.2da and enabled APR from profs, which I thought was hardcoded against, but my changes to profs.2da didn't seem to change my Bladesinger's initial or advancement rate.)

4) Any way to allow spell casting to progress (or at least function) past lvl cap? I added all xp/hp tables up to 50 but spells seem trickier.

5) And unrelated to whether the kit is a fighter or bard, my kitlist.2da implements an aesthetic char gen error (pictured below) that I'd like to fix if anyone knows how.

p.s. I only used DTCEP, no WeiDU yet, but my work-in-progress mods are public on Google drive.



  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 384
    1. Op Code 144.

    2. Edit MXSPLBRD.2da.

    3. You would need to change it for the entire bard class. And if you set it to 3 it will give you 1 more prof per 3 levels.

    4. Add rows to the 2da in #2.

    5. ???

  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 428
    @wolpak I used OpCode144 on thieving abilities, but there's no bard song option.
    And as far as prof rate, I was afraid I'd have to change all bards, I guess I'll try that.
    But thanks a lot, you were a huge help with spell casting.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 384
    I have no idea if anyone has actually put a kit into prof.2da to test. Maybe it will pick it up, I am not sure.

  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 428
    It doesn't seem to have picked it up in my bard kit if I add a bladesinger row, fighter kit works but of course that's due to the base class.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,468
    When I did this (on the old TOB engine) I added columns for 7th & 8th level spells to mxsplbrd.2da. If you set all entries to 0 and then added spells via CLAB nothing would happen. So I added 1 7th-level spell when appropriate (just compare XP of F/M vs. bard) and 1 8th-level spell when appropriate. That means all bards will get those spells. Then when the Bladesinger should get a 2nd 7th-level spell I add it via CLAB, etc.

    No 9th-level spells, because no bards should get them, and the Bladesinger is plenty strong without them.

    You probably also want to add thac0 bonuses. A bard more or less tracks a F/M most of the time, but at very high levels the F/M will keep progressing. I gave the Bladedinger bard thac0 bonuses at like 22, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, and 40.

    I don't know how much you need to change profs. I mean if you want to be lore-friendly the class should only be putting points into 1-handed swords and SWS, and only two points each. The bard advancement should accommodate that fairly easily.

  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 428
    I considered modifying mxsplbrd that way, but just replaced it with the wizard one (up to 50) for now. Being a fighter/mage kit in reality, there's no reason they shouldn't get 9th level spells if they can get up to the appropriate wizard level, but you're right they *should* max out at specialization, but that's not consistent with their description, so I see no problem with them getting grand mastery in one and only one single hand weapon, long sword or otherwise (as they are allowed to pick any single hand weapon to use forever.) I gave them a starting +1dmg and thac0 as per the kit's true description, but that worked under the assumption they used the fighter's tables so now dmg and thac0 are a little too weak- so I'll probably implement a thac0 bonus later on like you did.

    I also always hated multi-fighters being limited to specialization, bladesingers especially don't seem like they should be so limited if they're as flawless in combat as the complete book of elves implies.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,468
    Even giving them GM in long swords (I did that too), the bard prof progression is still probably okay. (It's what, 2 at 1st level and then another every 4 levels? So you could reach GM in long sword and Spec in SWS at 20th level. That sounds just right, power-wise.)

    The problem with giving bards the mage spell table is that bards level up so, so much faster than wizards. And the double that to compare against fighter/mages. Bladesingersword actually progress very very slowly with spells - that was actually part-and-parcel of the kit, because they live so long they can stretch their development over centuries.

    Consider that a fighter/mage won't usually get a 9th level spell until what, around 6 million XP? For a bard that's level 40 or so.

    Frankly it's probably worth simply replicating the fighter/mage spell table, according to XP, in the bard table. Just take each line from the F/M table, check how much XP is needed for a F/M to reach that level, and then see what level a bard would be with ths same XP and put it in that line of the bard's table. Then fill in all the gaps. But yeah if you actually look at it the spell progression should be very slow, probably even slower than a normal bard.

  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 428
    edited January 2015
    Yeah I actually agree the bard progression is alright, it wasn't crucial to me and seemed fine power-wise, especially since any other weapon spec would be wasted points and I'd have to apply a -1 thac0 somehow if I wanted to use it and be true to the kit, but I also made all style bonuses go to grand mastery for the hell of it, so that's 10 proficiency points all spent toward him honing his bladesong for centuries.

    I really want my guy progressing at the rate of a fighter/mage, so if I get that to work, spell progression will still be slow like it should be, but not limited in level. It's definitely way too fast at the bard xp table and wizard spell progression. I basically did most of what you suggested before I had to get back to real work, now I just have to tweak xp and test it out.
    I'd love to get it working on WeiDU as well but idk how I screwed it up such that it isn't finding the tp2 right next to it. (I am using ConTEXT)

    edit: the smallest change in the tp2 will make it visible, for some of them, but giving me a parse error at just about every line and if I delete the tildes and try again it just does the same next line down.

    Post edited by Abdel_Adrian on
  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 428
    Update: My bard kit now takes the combined experience of a fighter and mage to level, he reaches 22 at 8M, which gives 3 level 7, 8, and 9 spells with the wizard tables and 11 proficiencies with fighter rate. All bards will get fighter prof rate, apr, and wizard spells, but really slow levels too. And I don't use bards out of IWD.
    I still can't disable the bard button or fix char gen screen.

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