Moar Necromancy questions! Party?

Vallmyr

So, in line with almost all of my threads being about Necromancy, what sort of party do you guys think in BG1 and BGII would fit with a necromancer charname?

I suppose I'll divide this into two parts.

One party for a Cleric Necromancer that goes for TN and is a Master of Life and Death (Healing and Harming, balance sort of thing)

and another for a NE/LE Wizard Necromancer who's obsessed with Necromancy and improving his research.

I imagine Dorn and Viconia would be two people for such characters as a Blackguard makes a good bodyguard for a Necromancer and Viconia is practically one herself.

Edit: Also, I can never bring myself to leave Imoen behind and I always recruit Alora because she's my favorite NPC.

I'd rather take people more fitting of a black magick party but how do I deny Imoen and the cutest little thief girl to ever exist ever QQ

Naten

I think Edwin would fit in BG1 & 2, he is a conjurer (demon summoner). Hexxat i would have to say as well (vampire). Cernd maybe (werewolf), then you do the monster mash Oh and Haer'Dalis is a tiefling (half-demon) so maybe him instead of Edwin. Possibly Shar-Teel in BG1 as your early version of Hexxat (if you multi-class Shar-Teel to a thief for the backstabs) and i would say Faldorn as your early Cernd (its close as you get). As your Alora substitute for cuteness in BG2 I would have to say Mazzy?

Kamigoroshi

For starters... definitely no Druids (!) Undead of all kinds are their sworn enemies after all. You'd have to severely brainwash one for agreeing to help any kind of Necromancers, even good aligned ones.

Xzar, being an Necromancer himself, and Montaron (who has endured the stench of carrion for a long time) are amongst the most likely companions. The same goes for Dorn.

From a RP perspective, Viconia may or may not tolerant another cleric besides her. Depending on your patron deity in question. Though arcane necromantic casters might pose no problem for her.

In BG2, I'd take Hexxat, Dorn, Korgan/Sarevok, Edwin and Viconia for both necromancer characters.

Naten

Kamigoroshi said:

For starters... definitely no Druids (!) Undead of all kinds are their sworn enemies after all. You'd have to severely brainwash one for agreeing to help any kind of Necromancers, even good aligned ones.

Xzar, being an Necromancer himself, and Montaron (who has endured the stench of carrion for a long time) are amongst the most likely companions. The same goes for Dorn.

From a RP perspective, Viconia may or may not tolerant another cleric besides her. Depending on your patron deity in question. Though arcane necromantic casters might pose no problem for her.

In BG2, I'd take Hexxat, Dorn, Korgan/Sarevok, Edwin and Viconia for both necromancer characters.

no druids means no monster mash tho and that would just be ... a lost opportunity.
Surely severe brainwashing is easy enough to do with all the necromancy going on (some reason I have become emotionally invested in monster mash now)

Mortianna

@Vallmyr It's good to see another Necro-centric BG-player here.

Aside from a single-class Wizard or Cleric, a Cleric/Mage also works well (perhaps even ideally) for a Necromancer PC. Since Velsharoon ascended to godhood the same year as the BG storyline begins (1368 DR), your PC might be among the first of his devotees--albeit in secret, since Gorion and the tutors would most likely disapprove. This is the storyline I've come to use and build upon with my own PC.

As for Necromancer-appropriate party NPCs, most of them have already been mentioned: Xzar, Dorn, Viconia, Montaron, Hexxat, Sarevok, and Edwin. Tiax would be a good addition as well, since Cyric claimed the portfolio of Death (from Bhaal) and the Dead (from Myrkul). Tiax can also summon a Ghast, so that would be an invaluable contribution to a Necromancy-themed party.

A case could be made for Faldorn, since she's a Shadow Druid and can summon Dread Wolves, which are technically undead (the game doesn't classify them as such for some reason). As long as the party's actions don't conflict with her greater goal of protecting nature from "civilization," she might be content to look the other way while the PC raises a few "nature defilers" as undead skeletons.

From an RP-perspective, as far as Imoen and Alora go, I think they'd be very uncomfortable in a neutral-to-evil Necromancer-themed party, especially since many Necromancy spells are "morally questionable," especially draining life, inflicting disease, and animating the dead. Nonetheless, if you're dead-set (pun intended) on having them in your party, I'm sure there are plenty of story hooks you can come up with to justify their presence.

Vallmyr

Hmmm

Now I have to decide Cleric/Mage, Cleric, or Necromancer

I think I'll end up going Cleric/Mage since Velsharoon is my favorite deity. Didn't know his ascension was the same year as the BG storyline :O!

Also, I always thought Alora was CN but she's CG @_@

She seems to do what she wants when she wants for the reasons she wants.

Which to me sounds CN >_>

Imoen I think would stick by Charname no matter what.


And maybe she'll be my first apprentice! (Thief/Mage)

As for Alora, my character isn't really a douche. He's a gentleman and really nice. He also just is super fascinated with obtaining immortality by lichdom and unlocking the secrets of life and death. XD

He has his ethics and vices (hence for why I'm prob going to make a LE Cleric/Mage Necro) that hopefully will fit with Alora's randomness.

Also, my character's lawfulness is not the land's laws. It's more of a moral code he follows inspired by Velsharoon's dogma.

Thanks for the idea, @Mortianna!

Vallmyr

Also. @Mortianna, I almost solely play Necromancers in games that have them. Definitely my favorite archetype. The only thing, which oddly is on the opposite end of the spectrum, that matches my love for Necromancy are super cutesy gnome/halfling characters with preferably pink hair. My only run of BG that wasn't with a Necro themed character has been with a gnome illusionist/thief girl lol. Made her spell selection to be Fey-themed with trickery spells usually of the illusion or enchantment school.

But yeah, Necromancers are the best and my biggest dilema in BG has always been choosing between Cleric/Mage, Necromancer, and Cleric.

Also, with mods that add things like the pale master and white necromancer as sub-kits for Necromancer mages(Tome and Blood) or one of the many mods that adds a death themed deity for Clerics it makes the choice all the more painful QQ

Vallmyr

Naten said:

I think Edwin would fit in BG1 & 2, he is a conjurer (demon summoner). Hexxat i would have to say as well (vampire). Cernd maybe (werewolf), then you do the monster mash Oh and Haer'Dalis is a tiefling (half-demon) so maybe him instead of Edwin. Possibly Shar-Teel in BG1 as your early version of Hexxat (if you multi-class Shar-Teel to a thief for the backstabs) and i would say Faldorn as your early Cernd (its close as you get). As your Alora substitute for cuteness in BG2 I would have to say Mazzy?

It would be funny to have Mazzy in a group filled with morally suspicious characters XD. Oh, how I wish I could romance the little halfling paladin~.

Also, I've never actually played with Edwin in either BG1 or BG2. Guess I'll take him for a new experience.

Also, doesn't he and Alora actually become good friends or something?

Naten

Yeah Edwin does seem to have a fondness for Halfling ladies. He banters with Mazzy a good bit and interestingly enough he banters with Alora who is constantly trying to get him to loosen up which seems to have some effect. Won't give spoilers but it does happen. I think your right about Imoen being a good apprentice choice for your Cleric/Mage. If its good enough for CHARNAME its good enough for her.

Vallmyr

Naten said:

Yeah Edwin does seem to have a fondness for Halfling ladies. He banters with Mazzy a good bit and interestingly enough he banters with Alora who is constantly trying to get him to loosen up which seems to have some effect. Won't give spoilers but it does happen. I think your right about Imoen being a good apprentice choice for your Cleric/Mage. If its good enough for CHARNAME its good enough for her.

Maybe I'll RP that Charname is infatuated with Alora but maybe she meets an unjust end at the hands of Irenicus (I suppose I'll RP that he finds her corpse with Khalid's). This pushes from nice guy who dabbles in dark arts to FULL Lawful Evil douche. Maybe when he meets Mazzy he's reminded of Alora and decides to help her.

Or I could finally get the BG2 Alora NPC mod working.

but that requires work.

/blech

XD

Naten

Yes work is no fun at all.. I like the sound of your idea

Vallmyr

What weapon proficiency would a Cleric/mage necro use? In fact, sub-question, are there any weapons that just scream "USE ME, I AM THE DARKNESS"?

I think quarterstaff would fit but not sure what else to go with.

Also, looking for more of an RP-themed thing. So while I'll eventually pick up sling proficiancy I want my primary weapon to scream necromancer and throwing rocks doesn't seem to do that >_>

Unless there's a sling that animates the things it kills. That'd be cool. XD

Mortianna

@Vallmyr Staves are definitely necromancer material. I made a Staff of Withering mod that your Cleric/Mage would most likely find useful.

As for the sling, you could always throw Jan's Bruiser Mate skulls. >:D

Naten

Honestly i just wouldn't use range with your cleric/mage at all. Controlling you skeletons/cursing and directing your companions should be enough to keep you busy. Since you have Cleric class involved you really don't have any other options aside from throwing rocks anyways and i agree that is not very necromancery. Staff of the Magi all the way (once you get it), being an invisible ghost necromancer seems pretty appropriate.

I thought Jan's Bruiser Mate skulls were shot from a crossbow?


There is a sling that sonic booms everything once a day (chance of making things stunned) and it is named after the goddess of the halfings, sling of Arvoreen... sooo maybe that would work.

Vallmyr

Mortianna said:

@Vallmyr Staves are definitely necromancer material. I made a Staff of Withering mod that your Cleric/Mage would most likely find useful.

As for the sling, you could always throw Jan's Bruiser Mate skulls. >:D

Just looked up the staff mod and it looks super legit. I may just end up using it

DreadKhan

I'm pretty sure Keeper has no trouble making a multi-class Necromancer Cleric, which might be up you ally. Might not restrict Illusion properly, but iirc will add extra spells/affect % to copy spells.

Failing that, you can dual, which can be fun. Or demanding, if you dual to cleric in BG2... Better than dualing to Fighter really means very little, and besides, why not max out arcane anyways, its got the goods High Level anyways. Then again, Lathander and Helm are kinda off limits, and Talos to Mage is really not that awe-inspiring, but Talos DID cause Velsharoon to ascend... so you could RP that after you found out Talos double crossed Velsharoon, you could dual out to Mage, and just pretend you converted. Or something.

You know what? Just multiclass it and Keeper to Necromancer.

Gallowglass

Vallmyr said:

What weapon proficiency would a Cleric/mage necro use? In fact, sub-question, are there any weapons that just scream "USE ME, I AM THE DARKNESS"?

I think quarterstaff would fit but not sure what else to go with.

Also, looking for more of an RP-themed thing. So while I'll eventually pick up sling proficiancy I want my primary weapon to scream necromancer and throwing rocks doesn't seem to do that >_>

Unless there's a sling that animates the things it kills. That'd be cool. XD

If you follow Rasaad's BG2ee questline (at least part-way), then you can acquire the Lupine Sling +2, which diseases the target. That sounds like a necromancer's weapon. You'd have to do some thinking to RP-justify why a necromancer was working with Rasaad, though.

For melee, I reckon a necromantic C/M would like Mace proficiency, especially in BG2. The Mace of Disruption (especially after Cromwell has improved it) is perfect for keeping your protagonist safe from his own creations and destroying enemy undead. The Rod of Smiting +3 (using Quarterstaff proficiency) is also a necromantically-flavoured weapon, designed to destroy golems.

DreadKhan

Gallowglass said:

Vallmyr said:

What weapon proficiency would a Cleric/mage necro use? In fact, sub-question, are there any weapons that just scream "USE ME, I AM THE DARKNESS"?

I think quarterstaff would fit but not sure what else to go with.

Also, looking for more of an RP-themed thing. So while I'll eventually pick up sling proficiancy I want my primary weapon to scream necromancer and throwing rocks doesn't seem to do that >_>

Unless there's a sling that animates the things it kills. That'd be cool. XD

If you follow Rasaad's BG2ee questline (at least part-way), then you can acquire the Lupine Sling +2, which diseases the target. That sounds like a necromancer's weapon. You'd have to do some thinking to RP-justify why a necromancer was working with Rasaad, though.

For melee, I reckon a necromantic C/M would like Mace proficiency, especially in BG2. The Mace of Disruption (especially after Cromwell has improved it) is perfect for keeping your protagonist safe from his own creations and destroying enemy undead. The Rod of Smiting +3 (using Quarterstaff proficiency) is also a necromantically-flavoured weapon, designed to destroy golems.

Golems are actually animated by Elementals iirc, and other than some obscure exceptions, are not at all tied to Negative or Positive Energy. In 2nd ed, chanelling either is a necromancy scenario, but in 3rd necromancy is all Negative Energy.

You know, not that you *should*, but the Rod of Terror is pretty fitting for a necromancy obsessed caster imho. Maybe you can edit it a bit to remove that gawdawful charisma thingy, because that totally sucks and can kill you I think. Can you heal that somehow?

Vallmyr

DreadKhan said:

I'm pretty sure Keeper has no trouble making a multi-class Necromancer Cleric, which might be up you ally. Might not restrict Illusion properly, but iirc will add extra spells/affect % to copy spells.

Failing that, you can dual, which can be fun. Or demanding, if you dual to cleric in BG2... Better than dualing to Fighter really means very little, and besides, why not max out arcane anyways, its got the goods High Level anyways. Then again, Lathander and Helm are kinda off limits, and Talos to Mage is really not that awe-inspiring, but Talos DID cause Velsharoon to ascend... so you could RP that after you found out Talos double crossed Velsharoon, you could dual out to Mage, and just pretend you converted. Or something.

You know what? Just multiclass it and Keeper to Necromancer.

I'll definitely have to try this. I've never used EEkeeper but I do have it. I suppose I'll mess with it until I get it to work /shrugs.

Also, what should my stats be? I normally set the standard to a total roll of 87 at the beginning for my Bhaalspawns so that I can have one stat at 8, a few moderate stats, then one or two at 18. My favorite stats are Cha and Int and would have those as high as I can get them.

I know Cha is kind of useless but if I become a prophet and deity eventually I want to be the most inspirational leader from an RP perspective.

I think if I enjoy Cleric/Mage a lot on my next run of BG I might try the same in other D&D games that allow it.

I've also always wanted to try the True Necromancer in an IRL 3.5/Pathfinder game but never have. I know they kind of suck but the flavor is soooo goood.

I'm usually useless in parties because I play the face character and just hide when combat begins in my IRL groups XD

Naten

well there is a ring at the beginning of bg2 that gives 18 Cha if you do decide to go easy on the Cha.
I would recommend a low str since you won't be hitting things ever if you go the staff a magi route. If you go the mace of disruption route that would make things a bit trickier if you actually wanted to hit things. Staff of magi dispels things on attack i think so you might want to hit things sometimes with that as well.. Still strength belts are abundant if you ever need one. So low Str and low Cha is what i would do since they can be easy fixes. Low dex is trickier since there is only one item that increases that and you probably will find another party member needing that as well. I can never have lower than 16 Con personally even for a back row character but thats your call to make.

Vallmyr

It would be lovely to do a story arc from TN in candlekeep until his first party member death, then NE as he starts discarding his morals to learn necromancy more quickly. He'd hit LE at Alora's death as he becomes more calculating and applies ethics to his research (Otherwise every corpse he studies reminds him of Alora) to meeting Mazzy and possibly her redeeming him. Maybe become a White Necromancery type by ToB and LG?

I wish alignment shifted like NWN2. XD

Also, it pains me IRL to think of Alora as dead

She is my favorite NPC out of BG1 and BG2 >_>

abacus

High Con and low Dex would suit the archetype of a steadily decomposing spellcaster... high Con due to immunities built up through his constant exposure to rotting matter.

NPC wise... I've always liked the idea of zombiefying my companions... a mod with Zombie Minsc would be great.... BoooRAINS!!!

DreadKhan

True Necromancer is the PrC that gives progression in both Arcane and Divine, right? And very solid spell-like abilities?? That class is amazing actually. Its at its best if you can run an Ur-Priest for your Divine casting. Dread Necromancer might not be terrible as your arcane levels, but in truth, you probably will use divine spells for versatility, while Arcane, with which you'd have more slots, can do heavy lifting. Sorcerer would be a decent choice (though verify you can hit 9th lvl spells. If you have the Dragonlance Campaign setting, Dragonspawn get 1 level of Sorcerer casting for free, and have low enough LA to buy out) and take Sorcerer until you qualify for Ur-Priest, then take True Necromancer (or plain old Mystic Theurge) until you max out Ur-Priest casting, then either switch back to Sorcerer, or take something to add versatility. You can definately pull off 9th lvl in arcane AND divine, and thats huge.

As for uour BG necromancer, low Strength shouldn't matter, you have Cleric Buffs. For powergaming, 10 18 16 14 18 8 you can boost ing with potions. If you go from BG1, you will have hellagood Wisdom, so worth considering.

Vallmyr

DreadKhan said:

True Necromancer is the PrC that gives progression in both Arcane and Divine, right? And very solid spell-like abilities?? That class is amazing actually. Its at its best if you can run an Ur-Priest for your Divine casting. Dread Necromancer might not be terrible as your arcane levels, but in truth, you probably will use divine spells for versatility, while Arcane, with which you'd have more slots, can do heavy lifting. Sorcerer would be a decent choice (though verify you can hit 9th lvl spells. If you have the Dragonlance Campaign setting, Dragonspawn get 1 level of Sorcerer casting for free, and have low enough LA to buy out) and take Sorcerer until you qualify for Ur-Priest, then take True Necromancer (or plain old Mystic Theurge) until you max out Ur-Priest casting, then either switch back to Sorcerer, or take something to add versatility. You can definately pull off 9th lvl in arcane AND divine, and thats huge.

As for uour BG necromancer, low Strength shouldn't matter, you have Cleric Buffs. For powergaming, 10 18 16 14 18 8 you can boost ing with potions. If you go from BG1, you will have hellagood Wisdom, so worth considering.

Yeahh True Necromancer is super cool!

The normal Wizard 3/Cleric 3/True Necro X is meh, but there are things like the Ur priest that makes the build work well. Never played it in an IRL game though.

I'd like to RP a character who's a student to Velsharoon as opposed to a worshipper. Re-flavor Ur priest to rather be like an arcane class where Velsharoon is directly teaching me the spells as opposed to the character praying for them.

Mortianna

Naten said:

I thought Jan's Bruiser Mate skulls were shot from a crossbow.

They are, but it would be very easy to mod a sling stone version as well. There are bolts of paralyzation and darts of stunning, so why not a skull-like sling stone that does something similar? A sling stone that holds undead would be pretty useful as well.

Naten

You wizards and your mods. I never could trust such dark magics..

Vallmyr

Naten said:

You wizards and your mods. I never could trust such dark magics..

I'm always mixed on mods.

I prefer to play the game vanilla but BG NPC mod and Tome and Blood are too good for me to pass up <_>