Getting out of my comfort zone - SCS
O_Bruce
Member Posts: 2,790
Hi there, my almost beautiful people.
Recently, I've got an urge to start another playthrought of Baldur's Gate, this time with archer class and I've thought of doing something different than usual. Install SCS for some fresh experience. But there's a catch.
I am (usualy) heavy roleplaying player and as such I wouldn't want to rely on my meta knowledge too much when playing. But there is where SCS comes in. If I install all of the components, game's difficulty is going to be so great I'll have to cheese at least at times. So, my question is as following:
Which components should I install to enrich my gaming experience and not make me choice between roleplaying with a chore of a gameplay and using my meta knowledge? Any tips from much more experienced people than me would be welcomed.
Recently, I've got an urge to start another playthrought of Baldur's Gate, this time with archer class and I've thought of doing something different than usual. Install SCS for some fresh experience. But there's a catch.
I am (usualy) heavy roleplaying player and as such I wouldn't want to rely on my meta knowledge too much when playing. But there is where SCS comes in. If I install all of the components, game's difficulty is going to be so great I'll have to cheese at least at times. So, my question is as following:
Which components should I install to enrich my gaming experience and not make me choice between roleplaying with a chore of a gameplay and using my meta knowledge? Any tips from much more experienced people than me would be welcomed.
2
Comments
I would say install Improved general AI, better calls for help, (this 2 are a must), improved mages (option 3, no prebuff), improved clerics (same) and potions for NPC (you use them, why they shouldn't?). I would avoid improved battle components, but they are not that tough. Hope it helps
Those useless lightning resistance potions suddenly became useful. Wands were worth hanging on to. Almost everything can and should be used whenever it could make your life easier.
Really, the only encounter I had to meta away from early on was Silke. That one just isn't going to happen at level 1. But even that is fine when you think about it. You're level 1, and she isn't.
So yeah, you just need a slightly different mindset about using items and approaching enemies intelligently, but roleplaying is all still good.
EDIT: Mage and cleric prebuffing only when created on sight (which I felt was the most realistic option) wasn't working in BG:EE with SCS v28 so I had to use no prebuffing as Dexter suggests, else every mage was prebuffed. I haven't tested that option with v30 yet.
But Hudzy, shall I assume that your post is supposed to encourage me to install all of SCS as it is?
I actually skipped a few of the changes. Inquisitor dispel I keep at it's usual level. No short term prebuffing because I find that annoying and unrealistic. I kept +1 arrows and weapons because I like them. I kept arrows of dispelling but didn't end up using any. Most of the spell tweaks make sense though, and the AI will assume they're in place a lot of the time according to the readme.
I'd probably skip improved deployment of assassins since you could get caught unprepared for that and that sucks. The other tactical challenges were all fun and didn't need any cheese. Unless you consider prebuffing before a fight you logically can predict to be cheese of course.
There's a good guide to useful spells in SCS here.
As stated above, some fights do get a lot more scary. especially in BG2EE, some fights just get ripped out context. The lich in Edwin's quest (which should be a weaker lich) started spamming level 8 spells at me which hurt alot with double damage. I've done quite a bit of BG2EE now with prebuffing, but I'm thinking of removing it for now. It just makes battles take a lot longer, without it being more fun.
so in short, I tend to agree with dexter about what to add. Makes fights more realistic without making them exponentially harder with spellcasters.
The original game should have had the main component of SCS installed without any of the other.
Improved mages is the most difficult enhancing component and if you do chose to install it, leave out the buffs on them.
"it rearranges creatures' choices of proficiencies and (where appropriate) high-level (non-spellcaster) abilities, assigns kits to some fighters and thieves who don't currently have them, and ensures that creatures have correct (or at any rate consistent!) saving throws, attack rolls, levels, and kit abilities. It will mostly affect fighters, thieves, and monsters without large numbers of special abilities."
This is a severe(relatively, of course) modification. Making enemies behave differently is one thing, but adding kits, proficiencies, etc, is something else.
It also makes all the mages Elminsters, but what if this or that mage should've been weak by design?
Although, I don't remember if general AI improvement enhances spell casters as well, or it's a specific component, so I'm may be wrong here.
General AI improvement enhances the AI as in walking around and not sitting in a cloudkill, but it doesn't change the spells or abilities, then you'll have to install improved mages.
Max HP per level up is considered cheese by me, btw.
Same with proficiency points, a level 6 fighter should have 6 proficiency points to put into weapons of his choice. There are enemies in the game that have less than that.
A level 4 fighter should have 13/15/14/16/16 in saving throws, you'll see enemies with less or more.
SCS corrects many of these mistakes.
Usually I'm running straight to Gorion after equipping myself, but this time an idea to check the assassin occurred to me, and he's truly that - an assassin. He applies assassin's special ability (poison) and uses invisibility+backstab. There was no way I could've saved the character, as you can imagine.
I spent 1 hour to create this character, but it's not the point. The point is, Bioware specifically stated that it's a design choice to make these NPCs very low-threat, not some inability, and they made them look like some lowlife trash, not trained killers.
Sadly, 99% of modders don't understand the meaning of "challenging". I'm sure SCS is plagues by such examples. And about "SCS is better for RP that the original" - haha. Sure, sure.
Well, there goes my little rant.
Every single class in the game can kill them under SCS, you just need to use your abilities instead of attacking them with a quarterstaff you're not proficient with. They still have very low health so pretty much everyone can one shot them, rogues can backstab, clerics can use command and wizards can sleep them. They are just like any rogue you would create on your own, they have the same abilities, just worse stats and the fact that they have an AI means you know what they will do. Everything is in your favor when it comes to this fight.
The thing with SCS is that it forces you to THINK and use a good a TACTIC to get past the battles. There is no more running into the enemy with your fighters and throw a damage spell or two. It requires you to focus on defense as much as offense, and you'll learn that shutting down people with fear, sleep and hold spells is much more efficient than using damage spells.
SCS is better for RP than the original because it forces you to actually play the game instead of having it on autopilot.
It's not about killing him; he's as squishy as before. The point is: if he manages to apply poison, the characters with 12 or less HP, without means to heal themselves, are dead. If you fail the saving throw, only the Barbarian can survive. There's nothing tactical about it.
Sure, you can grab/steal the healing potion/antidote beforehand, just to be sure, but this is meta-game cheese. And meta-game cheese is bad for RP.
The people who might have a problem hitting him (Mage, Rogue, Cleric) can use spells or abilities to easily defeat him. For the other classes it's just apply weapon to face.
Well, If you know what you're talking about, you probably can explain why there's a random possibility to die without any chance of surviving(in certain circumstances)? IN TUTORIAL, basically. Some classes wouldn't even notice the change, for others it can be very painful. What "challenge" it brings? Running around in circles?
On the other hand, it maybe too broad. I'm speaking from personal experience. After beating the trilogy dozens of times, I was LOOKING for more challenge. "Tactics" was really enjoyable at first, but it quickly became apparent what there's a difference between challenging and tedious. It's quite easy to win over the player.
Also, the role-playing aspect of the... well... role-playing game was becoming more and more interesting, and with that comes "pickiness" over smallest details.
Two pretty rough guys get sent in to assassinate a welp with no real combat experience. The likely outcome of that is death, and it'll probably happen the first time you meet them if you get unlucky with the poison. But you can't realistically treat it as a tutorial scenario with SCS. Vanilla it's a tutorial for first timers and insultingly easy for anyone else. Nobody's a first timer installing SCS though. Or at least, it's not intended for people who don't already have experience with the game.
So as a class without the THAC0 and/or AC to stand up to this guy, realistically, and roleplaying, you might just get the hell out of there instead of being a hero.
How exactly is removing any random chance of dying going to increase the roleplay value?
There are no tutorials in roleplaying, the moment you wake up in candlekeep it'll be a fight for your life.
To me this post sounds a lot like: "I want to be able to defeat all my enemies, but if there is any chance at all that they can retaliate, defeat me or use the same abilities that i can, it's not roleplay anymore!"
It doesn't really work. My character was a swashbuckler, and I didn't "roleplay" a coward. Both Shank and Carbos are(should've been) some level 1 trash. So "Ruuun" is even more ridiculous. If you're making them trained assassins, at least adjust their dialogues.
And why is running ridiculous? You have been living a sheltered life without any danger and now you're having a person trying to kill you, running would make more sense than anything else.
As i said, this has nothing to do with roleplay, and everything to do with you expecting the computer to be trash and your CHARNAME to be invincible.
To me this post sounds like : "I'm a SCS supporter and I'll defend it "to the death" no matter what".
Please, keep it civil and don't assume the role of a psychologist/telepathist.
In the real life, you'd wake up in your house/apartment/etc and will go about your daily life. The RL has nothing to do with it; it's a game with good and bad design choices.
So it's "RP" or nothing to do with "RP"? You don't seem to follow your own line.
And you're really forcing this idea of running. What about choices? Again - you're about RP or not? It's not very clear. He can even kill a paladin if he's lucky. Should this paladin start running around as well? Just to be sure.
And if you ever get past Candlekeep, watch out for Silke, she is actually a high level Bard with almost no scribed spells in the original game, all they did with SCS was assign her the spells she should have scribed.
This will be the last of me in this thread, good luck everyone, and all hail Shank and Carbos, the slayers of Bhaalspawn!
It's funny how you try to push this "oh, it's difficult for you" line, wehn in reality SCS isn't near as brutal as. say, "Tactics", and the dissussion has nothing to do with difficulty per se.