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Dark Souls 2, Scholar of the first Sin

SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
So yeah the Dark Souls 2 remaster, Scholar of the first Sin, has been out for a little while now.
I picked it up and it's DS2 on steriods. At least PVE wise, I'm not a high enough level for decent PVP so I can't really comment on that, although I am extremely excited for 6 man PVP.

The PVE is alot better and a much bigger challenge, just by changing enemy placement and adding more enemies to certain areas, From has managed to take some of the more mundane areas and turn them into a into a hellish challenge "heide's tower of flame was actually a mission to get through."

I haven't found any of the extra lore yet, but I've been playing for about 8 hours so it's still early days on this run.
So yeah if you wanted to try DS2 now the time to get it, Scholar of the first Sin comes with all the previous DLC and guys please if you already have it just upgrade and we can meet up at the Old Iron Keep and have a few honourable duels over the lava.

Dragon Bros for Life!

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Comments

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,265
    This is definitely in my "must play" list, but I'm still on my first PoE run...

    SmilingSword
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Hmmm... I wonder what they did with the 'DLC'? In the PS3 version the DLC was primarily made tougher by simply making all of the creatures a LOT heartier and damage resistant. Where I was 1 shotting monsters in the last few chapters of the game proper, it would take 4-5 or more hits in the DLC.

    Still, I am intrigued.

  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited October 2015
    Dark souls 3 is on the way.
    Did you see when consuming ember, player gets fire surges on him? I wonder what is the lore behind this and is the player human at all or some fire being or fire lord (only speculations).


    Post edited by brus on
    FinneousPJ
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 476
    Some longer gameplay footage (haven't watched much of it though)

    16min
    120min

    FinneousPJbrus
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    I am excited about it. Hopefully they will get it right (not that the previous two (three??)) got it wrong, just saying that in any franchise there comes a time when 'More' doesn't equate to 'just as good' as what has gone before.

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    NOTE TO PEOPLE WHO PLAN TO GET SotFS: Don't get it on last gen consoles, most of the changes are not included. :(

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    @SethDavis - I think I am being dense. Do you mean don't get it on PS4 (the last generation of console yet available)? or Don't get it on the PS3 (the last generation before the current one)?

    And what additional content is there? Just the two DLC? Plus some replacing/rebalancing of the levels and monsters?

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    sorry, I had planned to put a "(ps3/360)" but forgot.

    ps3/360 get access to the 3 DLCs, an additional character shows up in 2-3 places, and there is an additional boss to fight. They may also get the modified item text lore.

    PC (and probably ps4/xbone) get that, as well as dramatically modified enemy placements, better enemy ai, new events based on whether the boss of an area is alive or not, modifications to areas that necessitate the use of a torch, multiple new black phantom invaders, new items (I think), and probably some other minor things that I'm forgetting.

    I knew all this before it came out, but it's been a while and I eventually forgot. I was watching a friend play through on PC and was really impressed by how much the new enemy placement changed the game, so I went out and bought it on ps3. I already had the base game on ps3 so I figured that was the best place as I was used to the controls. I was rather disappointed with my poor memory.

    the_spyder
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,265
    @the_spyder Last gen as opposed to current (or latest, probably not the last) gen.

    @SethDavis It shouldn't come as a surprise last gen consoles are limited compared to new ones. However, does the marketing not reflect this?

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    @FinneousPJ - it's a small print kind of thing really. what they say on the store pages is

    "This new edition offers fans of the series and newcomers alike rebalanced gameplay, new and deadlier enemies, a brand new NPC to discover, expanded lore and new in-game events."

    which is loosely true, so long as you interpret all of those things to relate to the one NPC, rather than actual new enemies/events/lore/gameplay etc. everything else is available in the DLCs which are available separately.

    the main problem is that there is no real reason that most of these limitations are there.

    -The enemy placement relies on existing areas and existing enemies.
    -The events are tied and triggered by existing props and creatures in much the same way as existing events are triggered.
    -The ai changes are timing based and changes to handle new environments, equivalent to scripting for BG.
    -The darkness areas would perhaps be a bit intense for the old lighting system (depending on how much they changed it to get the darkness), but the DLCs have an area that reduces visibility in a similar fashion, so who knows.
    -The new invaders are not different from current invaders, they just have new items. As far as I can tell, these items come from the DLCs and exist in games that do not have the DLCs to facilitate pvp with games that do have them.

    That said, I'm not saying don't get SotFS, it looks really cool and it's definitely an upgrade. I'm just saying you will be missing out if you get them on PS3/360.

    FinneousPJ
  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    Just noticed this, but the PS3 store page has images of changes not available in the PS3 version so....

    FinneousPJthe_spyder
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,265
    @SethDavis Well, obviously it's impossible to know for sure, but don't you think it's a resource limitation on older systems?

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    I wouldn't say so. The DLC's showed that the existing engine was capable of handling much larger and more densely populated areas than existed in the base game. The changes that I've seen thus far by watching my friend have not yet come to what the DLCs have. But it is indeed impossible to know for sure.

    FinneousPJthe_spyder
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    @SethDavis - thanks for the info. I have finished DS2 in my PS3, but after going back and obsessing over DS1 for many hours, I was contemplating switching over to DS2 again. This might be a better option as my poor PS4 sits unused for weeks at a time and it gets lonely. Plus, the better rebalancing might actually bring (yet more) challenge over a game that I know and have beaten.

    Not to mention, I bet there are a fair number of players on the PS4 version that aren't on the PS3 version, so a different (if not necessarily better or worse) group of online players.

    SethDavis
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,330
    I have Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition and Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin both on PC and haven't played them yet due to my busy schedule. Should I play them in order?

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    edited October 2015
    from my experience, it doesn't much matter. The connections between ds1 and ds2 seem to be largely fan service-y. You'll get a handful of references if you play them in order and you read every item description, but otherwise you'll be fine with whatever you do.

    Your mood will play a bit more into it. If you feel like exploring (locations or naratives) then ds1 fits your bill, if you feel like taking a slightly trippy journey where everything is neat, but nothing much connects, then ds2 fits better.

    EDIT: ds3 sounds like it'll be important to have played in order though

    Vallmyrthe_spyder
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,330
    I think I'll start DS1 once my schedule clears up. I plan to make a D&D styled Cleric. Any recommendations for a build? Also are there any "dark" divine spells?

  • SethDavisSethDavis Developer Posts: 1,812
    there are hexes in ds2, which kinda work like that, but for the most part there are few options for offensive miracles. lightning in ds1, lightning and force in ds2.

    funnily enough, doing a divine run will make the necromancers in the game less of a threat for you.

    Vallmyr
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 476
    SethDavis said:


    funnily enough, doing a divine run will make the necromancers in the game less of a threat for you.

    Isn't that how it's supposed to be, a cleric is the best weapon versus the undead. Be that a cleric in D&D or a priest of the catholic church (exorcism is still practiced )


    Vallmyr, starting with DS1 is the best way to go. I would recommend the DSfix though.

    Vallmyr
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    edited October 2015
    @Vallmyr - I agree that you really want to start with DS1. It won't make "Much" difference, but if you do the reverse, there are things that got "Fixed" in DS2 that you won't like about DS1 afterwards and there are things that got broken that you won't see or understand as broken in DS2 until you have played the original.

    I will say that:

    1) prepare to die.... A LOT. Get used to this. It is a part of the game (both of them).
    2) If you react to the game the way I did, expect to be totally obsessed with it after a while. I've put more than 400 hours into DS1 (and probably an equal amount into DS2). It is very easy to become addicted to the game.
    3) Understand that, although it is not a traditional RPG, it is actually quite deep in it's way. Once you start getting into the history and mythology of the game, you will probably appreciate it as much as most other more traditional RPG games.
    4) Be prepared to be VERY disappointed with other RPG style games after playing Dark Souls. Okay, not all of them, but it definitely sets the bar pretty high as far as a lot of mainstream stuff.

    As far as your build, Divine characters are among the most powerful in the game, particularly in certain areas. My suggestion (for DS1) is that you start off developing your DEX to the point where you can use a bow. Then develop your STR until you can use the Dragon sword, or better yet the Zweihander. Then get enough Stamina to wear medium armor and still be able to roll. Then go all out Faith and Attunement.

    Post edited by the_spyder on
    FinneousPJ
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited November 2015
    I just find out that Dark souls covenants are actually referring to D&D alignments. That's some secret connection developers put in.
    image

    For Dark souls 2 :
    1. Lawful Good = Blue Sentinels
    2. Neutral Good = Way of Blue
    3. Chaotic Good= Rat King Covenant
    4. Lawful Neutral = Heirs of the Sun
    5. True Neutral = Company of Champions
    6. Chaotic Neutral = Bell Keepers
    7. Lawful Evil = Pilgrims of Dark
    8. Neutral Evil = Dragon Remnants
    9. Chaotic Evil = Brotherhood of Blood

    Post edited by brus on
    FinneousPJJuliusBorisov
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    Interview with Hidetaka Miyazaki about FromSoftware's future projects and end of the Dark Souls:
    http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dark-souls-3-interview-it-wouldnt-be-right-to-cont/1100-6432425/

    FinneousPJSethDavisJuliusBorisov
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 6,200
    Finally got around to playing the first game since I just picked up a Logitech Control Pad to run with my emulators, and realized I might stand a chance to survive now that I have it. The game is everything everyone has always said it is. Harsh, but fair. It's an action game in many respects, but plays to RPG fans in the constant need for repetition to get the areas and enemies down and in the gear and build choices. Took me at least 10 tries to get the Taurus Demon down, but as I've read what seems like 1000 times, it was immensely satisfying in a way that's pretty rare. Every room you get down and feel secure fighting in feels GOOD. All in all, Dark Souls feels like maybe the most DELIBERATE game I've ever played. Everything serves a purpose, there is no fluff and nothing is around by accident. Grinding helps but in the end it won't save you. You just have to learn. Good stuff.

    SethDavisFinneousPJ
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    brus said:


    For Dark souls 2 :

    1. Neutral Evil = Dragon Remnants
    Wait what? How are the most honorable group in DS2 Neutral Evil? All us dragon bros want to do is become dragons and achieve immortality, how is that evil? We punish those that kill our dragon kin and have honorable duels amongst ourselves for the chance to become ever closer to becoming dragons.

    The Bell Keepers are far more evil than us, the bunch of ganking D-bags that they are, there is no honor in that covenant.

    SethDavis
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    I recently found out that DS2 SotS does not save to steam cloud and lost all my progress, that's all 180 hours of DS2 and 60+ hours of DS2 SotS. So if you ever need to format make sure to backup your DS2 SotS save files first.

    SethDavis
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited December 2015



    Wait what? How are the most honorable group in DS2 Neutral Evil? All us dragon bros want to do is become dragons and achieve immortality, how is that evil? We punish those that kill our dragon kin and have honorable duels amongst ourselves for the chance to become ever closer to becoming dragons.

    I didn't wrote this alignments. The fans did but that was a long time ago.

    I can just speculate why is this case. Probably who knows D&D alignments and Dark souls can explain better.
    You know the dragon in Ash Lake from DS1 ? He's neutral. But dragons want to get power at any cost, at any price, therefore evil tendency.
    No honor for Bell Keepers probably means chaotic behaviour.

    I think Fromsoft include this gimmick just because they're fans of D&D games. I wouldn't take it as strong core game mechanic.

    They have also included weapon upgrade system but simplified
    +1 upgrade weapon means 1d4,
    +2 -> 1d4+1 etc.

    Post edited by brus on
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    Dark Souls 2 sadly couldn't live up to its predecessor.

  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    SionIV said:

    Dark Souls 2 sadly couldn't live up to its predecessor.

    Yes and no, it depends on what you're comparing. If you are comparing story DS1 is better, if you are comparing boss fights they are about equal in my mind, if you are comparing basic game mechanics and fighting systems DS2 wins hands down.

    I also prefer PvP in DS2 over DS1, because dragon bros and also no giant dads.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited December 2015
    @SmilingSword World, Atmosphere, Sandbox, Story, Lore, Boss Fights. Everything that made Dark Souls a unique experience.

  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    edited December 2015
    @SionIV I will say yes story, lore and atmosphere DS1 did better, but between the DLC and SotS, the DS2 boss fights got a lot better, hence me saying they are on par with DS1. I personally really like Drangleic and the DS2 sandbox is just as good as the DS1 sandbox. All in all I put about maybe 140 in DS1 before I moved it over steam and about 240 in DS2 at this point. I don't think I could do another DS1 run for a few years, but I just started a new DS2 run, because mechanically it is a joy to play.

    I just wish there was still enough of a player base to join the ratbros, pimp out than maze and not have to wait forever to summon someone in.

    SionIV
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