Strongholds (BG:2)

Nem

Hi,

I've searched a bit and didn't come up with an answer so I was hoping someone here could provide me with the answer.

Will strongholds receive any changes/additions? Like more quests or rewards?

I read somewhere that a mod was created to enhance the thief's stronghold by extending it somehow (I'm not sure how). Can we expect to see additions such as those to all strongholds? Is the mod for the thief's stronghold something that will be included?

I do know it's being discussed as to whether a monk and barbarian stronghold may be added (mentioned on reddit).

Any answers would be appreciated.

The_New_Romance

I don't think anybody knows yet. There haven't been any announcements about BG2:EE, as far as I recall, except that it will most likely happen sometime next year or so.

Nem

Wait, you mean BG:EE is simply BG1? I was under the impression that it was BG 1 AND 2! Well that's interesting to learn! Somewhat disappointing, but it does make sense.

Any info on when BG2:EE will be released?

Thanks again!

Kholdstare

Nem said:

Wait, you mean BG:EE is simply BG1? I was under the impression that it was BG 1 AND 2! Well that's interesting to learn! Somewhat disappointing, but it does make sense.

Any info on when BG2:EE will be released?

Thanks again!

We don't have a date yet, but it IS coming. As for strongholds, I know they're looking at them. Someone asked about it on the AMAA about Barbarians and Monks too.

Nem

Ah thanks for confirming.

I'd love to know what's in the future for strongholds as my character choice may heavily depend on that, and I want to import to BG:2!

A second play-through of BG:1 may be necessary I suppose.

The_New_Romance

If the contracts stay the same, they won't be allowed to change existing content. The strongholds that are there will thus probably stay the way they are. As for the yet-unserved character classes, I firmly believe that Beamdog will create something.

GueulEclator

The_New_Romance said:

If the contracts stay the same, they won't be allowed to change existing content. The strongholds that are there will thus probably stay the way they are. As for the yet-unserved character classes, I firmly believe that Beamdog will create something.

Seriously F*ck these contracts and greedy corporate.

Sorry I needed to say it.

Why can't they allow the devs to improve small stuff like quest? why? what's the reasoning behind this? ARe those f*cking share holders retarded?


However, adding more quest and features to the stronghold doesn't change anything in the game : it just add features.
If they don't touch to the initial stronghold features, then they can add whatever they want on top of it.

Fake_Sketch

GueulEclator said:

The_New_Romance said:

If the contracts stay the same, they won't be allowed to change existing content. The strongholds that are there will thus probably stay the way they are. As for the yet-unserved character classes, I firmly believe that Beamdog will create something.

Seriously F*ck these contracts and greedy corporate.

Sorry I needed to say it.

Why can't they allow the devs to improve small stuff like quest? why? what's the reasoning behind this? ARe those f*cking share holders retarded?


However, adding more quest and features to the stronghold doesn't change anything in the game : it just add features.
If they don't touch to the initial stronghold features, then they can add whatever they want on top of it.

Its probably because they don't want to risk messing up with a classic game. I do think we will get some extra stronghold anyway.

GueulEclator

not only stronghold but also stronghold features : like more managing for the thief guild, planar travel for the mage sphere (that would be awesome) + more magic stuff...

Schneidend

All I can tell you is that I'll be pissed unless one of three things happens:

1) Blackguards get their own special Stronghold.
2) Blackguards get the Thief Stronghold.
3) Blackguards get an alternate version of the Paladin Stronghold where they infiltrate the Order of the Radiant Heart and either reform or destroy it from within.

GueulEclator

Schneidend said:

All I can tell you is that I'll be pissed unless one of three things happens:

1) Blackguards get their own special Stronghold.
2) Blackguards get the Thief Stronghold.
3) Blackguards get an alternate version of the Paladin Stronghold where they infiltrate the Order of the Radiant Heart and either reform or destroy it from within.

Option 3) all the way !

Dee

Once BG:EE is released, I imagine they'll have a little bit more leverage for obtaining rights to muddle with existing content, particularly with regard to "unfinished" quests (like the thief's stronghold). When it comes to existing NPCs and quests, though, it's more a question of protecting the IP. You wouldn't let Tom Stoppard rewrite Shakespeare, would you?

...Well, you might, but you wouldn't then try to pass it off as Shakespeare. And if Shakespeare were still alive, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd take you to court over it.

GueulEclator

Aosaw said:

Once BG:EE is released, I imagine they'll have a little bit more leverage for obtaining rights to muddle with existing content, particularly with regard to "unfinished" quests (like the thief's stronghold). When it comes to existing NPCs and quests, though, it's more a question of protecting the IP. You wouldn't let Tom Stoppard rewrite Shakespeare, would you?

...Well, you might, but you wouldn't then try to pass it off as Shakespeare. And if Shakespeare were still alive, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd take you to court over it.

Let's not exaggerate too much. Don't compare one of the greatest author of all time with a video game. It's way more easy to fully catch the spirit of a video game than to pursue the work of a genius.

From what we have seen they did a great job until now, and really got the spirit of the game. Just go hear the music preview, you will see that we are dealing with pro.


I'm confident that they can complete those strongholds with much more features and quest.

Schneidend

Well, Shakespeare himself doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. All of his plays are based on historical events or outright stolen from popular stories, urban legends, and folk lore with altered character names. His dialogue was the only original thing about his work. So, if you just rewrote his work, you'd basically be doing the exact same thing he did, the same characters and plots but with different words in their mouths.

Fake_Sketch

Schneidend said:

All I can tell you is that I'll be pissed unless one of three things happens:

1) Blackguards get their own special Stronghold.
2) Blackguards get the Thief Stronghold.
3) Blackguards get an alternate version of the Paladin Stronghold where they infiltrate the Order of the Radiant Heart and either reform or destroy it from within.

I'm really digging number 3.

Dee

GueulEclator said:

Aosaw said:

Once BG:EE is released, I imagine they'll have a little bit more leverage for obtaining rights to muddle with existing content, particularly with regard to "unfinished" quests (like the thief's stronghold). When it comes to existing NPCs and quests, though, it's more a question of protecting the IP. You wouldn't let Tom Stoppard rewrite Shakespeare, would you?

...Well, you might, but you wouldn't then try to pass it off as Shakespeare. And if Shakespeare were still alive, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd take you to court over it.

Let's not exaggerate too much. Don't compare one of the greatest author of all time with a video game. It's way more easy to fully catch the spirit of a video game than to pursue the work of a genius.

From what we have seen they did a great job until now, and really got the spirit of the game. Just go hear the music preview, you will see that we are dealing with pro.


I'm confident that they can complete those strongholds with much more features and quest.

I agree with you that Dave's a great writer, and I trust him to work on whatever content they let him into. But I also know that if someone picked up a book I wrote, and said, "Hey, mind if I add a few scenes here and there?"... Well, let's just say that we would have words.

I'm not mentioning Shakespeare to point out Shakespeare's quality; I'm bringing it up as a means of illustrating the involuntary encroachment of one author upon another author's work. As a writer, or developer, you have a right to your work being left alone. That's part of where the contractual limitations come from. Overhaul has been given permission to add some new content, with the understanding that the original content will remain the same. This allows the original content to remain as it was when it was released, while still allowing Overhaul to place their thumbprint on the game for the work that they've done.

With BG:EE's success, they might have better leverage to say, "Hey, the content we built for BG1 was pretty solid; how do you feel about letting us take a crack at some of these unfinished quests in BG2?"

But ultimately it's still up to the owner of the original game's rights to make that decision.

GueulEclator

indeed.

shawne

The question, IMO, is whether the need to install a mod like "Unfinished Business" or "Ascension" for those cut/broken quests affects the value you attach to BG2:EE. I agree that it's somewhat disappointing - especially since integrating these mods could have been a great selling point, ie: "Baldur's Gate as it was meant to be played" - but so long as the most basic mods (like the above two) are compatible and can be installed without any hassle, I suppose it doesn't make or break my decision to buy the game...

Corvino

Seeing as we're talking Shakespeare - look at Baz Luhrman's Romeo + Juliet. The dialogue remained intact but the visual setting obviously changed things up a lot. The story remains mainly the same, and the product is seen as a solid reimagining.

beerflavour

GueulEclator said:

...
Let's not exaggerate too much. Don't compare one of the greatest author of all time with a video game. It's way more easy to fully catch the spirit of a video game than to pursue the work of a genius.
...

What is actually the difference between one of Shakespear's plays and a CRPG? Shakespear tells some story. The authors of the CRPG tell a story. The main difference is the choice of topics and the time it was written. The CRPG is (to a certain degree) interactive. Watching a play is more like watching a movie (although many of the required background informations to understand the play cannot be taken for granted with today's audiences).

Besides Shakespear took historic themes for some plays. He altered the plays like he saw fit (play trumps truth). Lots of quotes (e.g. latin or italian quotes) were used incorrectly. That for the genius part. ,)

Bjjorick

Nem said:

Wait, you mean BG:EE is simply BG1? I was under the impression that it was BG 1 AND 2! Well that's interesting to learn! Somewhat disappointing, but it does make sense.

Any info on when BG2:EE will be released?

Thanks again!

lol, this was my response when i fought out metal gear solid: the twin snakes was only metal gear 1. At the time, mgs 2 had been out for awhile, and i thought twin snakes???? MGS 1 n 2 on gamecube? awesome, must buy.....

ehhh, they didn't even have vr missions