New player, question about dual-classing.
Vanor_Orion
Member Posts: 2
I just got this game earlier in the week. Howdy. I got the original 2 IWD games off of GOG but I had a hard time getting into them because I never really played CRPG games like this. Figured this version might be a good way to try the rest of these out. I've made a party and played through the game a bit, and have I think finally figured out the basics. But I want to go back and make a new party and tweak some things. My MC is a human cleric. Humans can dual class. What exactly does this mean? And should I do it and when?
Also I'm using a Barbarian, the class seems kind of limited, does it get better as it levels? Thanks in advance!
Also I'm using a Barbarian, the class seems kind of limited, does it get better as it levels? Thanks in advance!
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As for Barbarians, what you see is mostly what you get. The resistances are a fairly minor bonus at late levels. They make it easier to reach 100% resistance. But a character with 100% ressitance vs 80% resistance can practically be as invulnerable as each other if your party doesn't take forever to kill stuff.
Also D12 hit die only matters until level 9, so 18 more HP vs Fighters. Or an average of 9 if you don't have max HP on.
Dual class is the ability to stop leveling in one class to start another, so you will stop any progression in the current class and will start into a new class at level 1.
It's restricted to humans.
The inactive class will cease of give any of it's inherent bonus and penalties, but some exceptions can occur, as an innactive wizard slayer class blocking the equipment of any magic item other than sword and armor. By rule, the only think you keep from the old class is the HP progression and Saving Throws (this last one i tested before answer the question).
Your new class will not generate HP per level up until the old class is reactivated (i need confirm in this if it's a definitive rule or if it has exceptions). Thac0 will be reduced to the new class level, until the inactive class is reactivated and it's Thac0 progression is added (if that change the progression to better).
To reactivate the old class, you new class must be higher than the old by 1 level (ex: old class lvl 11 and new class lvl 12). Just know that the XP table is different to each class, so a rogue classes (thief and bard) normally level faster, while paladins and rangers lvl slow.
Obs: druid level normally is fast, unless you work with his 13° and 14° level, which take a long time to get, if you intend to dual to this class, know that will take a while to reactivate a 12° or 13° old class (and know that while the manual silent about this, Druid main status IS wisdom AND charisma, so you need 17 in both to dual to druids, what sucks when you have a warrior that want to spend points in strenght, constitution and dexterity too).
About dual class from spellcasters, as @Zyzzogeton said, it's normally not a good idea. The point of play spellcasters is to get the higher spell circles that comes in the higher levels of the class.
I will give one exception to this rule, Make an kit cleric and dual it to mage, not for the spells in fact, but for the special abilities of that kit and for bonus HP. This can be pretty good with an dual class from a priest of lathander or tempus to a mage, but i specifically don't think the loss of 1 casting spell per arcane circle is worth the trade (cos you can't choose a specialization or wild mage when you dual class to mage).
About barbarians, i understand that IWD EE has tons of itens that reduce damage types(slash, missile, crushing and piercing), so technically you can become immune to damage with barbarians (same with dwarven defender with defensive stance in use). But i doubt you will ever suffer an backstab attempt in this game, if i'm not wrong.
There's some minor game changes made by fans or devs with extra time, normally a simple file to be throw in the override folder that allow barbarians to dual class, if you get your hand in one of those for IWD:EE, know that barbarian/cleric or druid dual class is awesome in Baldur's Gate, which one will be better in IWD EE i don't know.
Okay, the manual is long, and it doesn't explain everything ... but it explains the concept and leaves the planning-bits to you. On the Internet you can find many FAQs about the topic, and those aren't short either. Much to read. Better read a bit in the IWDEE manual and dive into the game instead of thinking too much about it. Find out what you like instead of reading what others like. As a new player, you don't need to. Not all dual-class characters are "better" or worthwhile. For example, one can accidentally waste weapon skill points when dual-classing. Btw, IWD2 applies different rules anyway.
Start with single-class characters and gain experience. It could be that you won't see a need to create dual-class (or multi-class characters) at all.
Sure ... a Berserker 3 -> Cleric or Berserker 4 -> Cleric is nice ... can activate RAGE for quick protection against some nasty attacks, can reach grand mastery with a weapon ... but during the initial three Berserker levels you may need someone else to provide healing. Such as a Druid.
Sure ... a Thief 3 -> Fighter is nice ... can Find and Disarm Traps with 100 ... can become a powerful fighter ... but you may need to put on/off the armor when disarming traps, because everything stronger than Studded Leather disables the thieving skills. As a new player you don't know whether you will find a suitable enchanted armor.
Sure ... some Fighter -> Mage may be nice for a few extra HP. But you may be missing the arcane caster at the beginning of the game.
And to dual-class at level 7 or 13 may be overkill for IWDEE, since depending on size of party and difficulty you play at, the game end is reached before your primary class is available again. Think twice about it. If it were a Fighter 13 -> Cleric, you would play a plain cleric for a very long time with only more HP.
1. You gain your levels back faster
2. Why would you purposely hinder a character when you can make your party diverse right from the beginning and not need to lag behind for so long?
So, I made a party of a Human Fighter that I was going to then dual to a cleric. (still not sure when).
I have a half-orc Barbarian.
Elf Mage.
Human Cavalier.
Half-Elf Fighter-Thief.
I think an elf/half-elf Druid Avenger.
I do have a question about Paladins, namely how do I use their skills/spells? Or do they not unlock until higher levels? I'm finally getting the hang of how this game plays. I've been trying to get into CRPGs like this before but I'm not too familiar with D&D and whatnot so it was kind of hard to trying to get a hold on everything. I'm hoping I can use my understanding of this to be able to get into Baldur's Gate, ToEE and Neverwinter Nights. Though personally what attracted me to IWD was that it was supposed to be more "combat focused" and less about a story. I really like Final Fantasy 1 so the idea of putting together my own party to deal with a situation appeals greatly to me. Thank you again for your replies.
Actually, now that I think about it, I do have a question, namely when it comes to gear. When armor says (7 against Slashing) or whatever, is having a higher number good or bad, or is having a lower number for that better?
I dual classed my Swasbuckler to fighter at lvl 9 and she was only one fighter level behind my main pure fighter character.
It's all a matter of understanding the game. To be honest, since dual-classing requires a good porion of knowledge about the game it is sometimes seen as Powergaming. But who cares about that, right? xD Don't worry, while BG games have more story than IWD it still contains a lot of fighting. And you can make your custom party in BG (though it's little cheesy xD), although I would recommend you to do that only after you played the game with the NPCs that are created in the game, since unlike IWD in BG games, interaction between the NPC and your PC is a thing and they are really funny at times.
You start with 10 on it with dexterity 10. Dexterity 18 gives you a -4 bonus and dexterity 3 gives a +4 penalty.
The lower is the AC an armor provide, the better, but:
Rangers will lose capacity to hide in shadows with anything heavier than studded leather and Barbarians can't use anything heavier than splint mail. Any dual/multi class with mage can use armors but the use of any armor (except elven chain mail if present in this game) disable the use of arcane spells.
For example, if a Fighter with a base THAC0 of 20 equips a magical Long Sword +1, his effective THAC0 is now 19. And his damage output with a successful attack is now one point higher.
When it comes to armor you wear, like studded leather or a splint mail, for example, the numbers don't mean bonuses. A suit of armor sets your base Armor Class from 10 (or less than that, if a character's Dexterity is higher than 14) to whatever it says on the description.
Of course, the value stated by the description is always based on AC 10. So for example, if a Thief with a Dexterity of 18 (base Armor Class 6) wears a suit of Studded Leather (Armor Class 7), his final Armor Class will be 3 (which is 10 reduced to 7 by the suit of armor and then reduced by 4 more points by his Dexterity score).
And as you've noticed, certain suits of armor have better or worse protection against certain types of damage.
And certain other items (magical armor, helmets, rings, cloaks, even certain weapons) can further reduce your Armor Class via a bonus. You will notice you often can't wear two of these items together (except for helms and weapons which can be combined with anything).
I've just had a moment of realizing how counterintuitive and convoluted these AD&D rules are. Still my favorite iteration of the rules, though.
The character record screen shows item based bonus adjustments to the Saving Throws as negative number, which is more clear than the positive number the item description shows.