Some Class Changes From Icewind Dale That Would Rock

MilesBeyond

I know, I know, no IWD stuff in the BG:EE. But AFAIK that applies to NPCs, items, locations, etc, not concepts.

In its expansion pack, Heart of Winter, IWD made a number of changes to make pureclasses more viable.

It was kind of an alternative to the kits, but I think that even with kits, there are a few changes that would transition well to BG (I'm just going to list those, there are some that I'll leave out):

Paladins:

Spells available at level 6 (instead of 9)
Ability: Smite Evil - Column of holy light that does 1d6 + (1d6 / 3 levels) damage
to evil enemies (so like a variant on the Holy Smite spell)

Rangers:
Spells available at level 6 (instead of 9)
Ability: Tracking - Gives a chance to detect what enemies are on the screen, and possibly where they can be found. Dependent on level and WIS

Limitation: Cleric/Ranger does not start gaining access to Druid spells until Ranger reaches level 6

The second one (Tracking) seems very unlikely as it'd be a ton of work, but it'd be cool. EDIT: Whoops, just remembered that Tracking is an HLA for Rangers in ToB

Earlier spells for Paladins (except Inquisitors, of course) and Rangers would be a welcome boost to both classes

The change to Cleric/Rangers seems like a fantastic addition.

Druids:

Shapechanging:

Druids now can shapechange starting at 5th level, gaining a new form every two levels thereafter, including three new elemental forms (5th level wolf, 7th level black bear, 9th level brown bear, 11th level Fire Elemental, 13th level Earth Elemental, 15th level Water Elemental).

More shapeshifting forms would give pure Druids and Avengers an edge over the more powerful Totemic Druid. Still leaves Shapeshifter out in the cold, though

Mages:

Revised opposing schools for Spec mages

Abjurer: Alteration, Illusion
Conjurer: Invocation
Diviner: Conjuration/Summoning
Enchanter: Invocation
Illusionist: Necromancy, Abjuration
Invoker: Divination, Conjuration/Summoning
Necromancer: Illusion, Enchantment/Charm
Transmuter: Necromancy, Abjuration

I really appreciated this. Balancing out the schools so that Conjurer is no longer the obvious choice and they're all more or less equally viable is a great idea. No matter which one you pick, you're trading something important to get those extra spell slots. Probably not for everyone, though.

Bard: Gains a new Bard Song every other level:

The Ballad of Three Heroes - Allies gain +1 to hit, damage and Saving.
The Tale of Curran Strongheart - 3rd level. Removes fear.
Tymora's Melody - 5th level. Allies get +1 luck, +3 saving throws, and
+10% to lore and thieving skills.
The Song of Kaudies - 7th level. 50% chance to evade sound-based
attacks.
The Siren's Yearning - 9th level. Chance of enemies becoming Enthralled
(unable to move for a minute or so, or until they take dmg).
War Chant of Sith - 11th level. Allies get +2 bonus to AC, +10% res. to
slashing, piercing, crushing and missile attacks, plus
regenerate 2 HP per round.

Okay, so some of those are absurdly overpowered, and others would make the kits redundant. So we wouldn't want to bring in the IWD Bard Songs.

But I like the idea of a growing Bard Song in general. If the Jester and Skald song were to start out weaker and get stronger, that would make them better balanced in BG1 (where they're way too much) and in BG2 (where they aren't quite as impressive). Also, significant growth in the Bard Song would make the Blade's lack of growth much more of a disadvantage, and put that kit on the same level as the others, instead of being the clear standout.



IWD added "Good" and "Evil" restrictions to Cleric spells, but I can't see that working well in BG. Especially since evil clerics can't cast healing spells. Can you imagine playing BG2 and forcing every evil player to drag along Anomen or Aerie just to raise party members? Frustrating. It works well in a create-your-own-party game, but in BG? Not a good idea.


I know it's a long post, but any thoughts?

Moomintroll

I agree, fundamentally I suppose they improved the low-level game and profression, significantly for most classes in IWD HoW.

Chippy

I'd pay $10 or more for tracking to be implemented for rangers at a low level - just to add some character to the class.

GueulEclator

Good job. Adding these improvement would vastly balance the game and allow more diversity, while not hurting the spirit of BG.

Those changes would have been made by BLACK ISLE themselves if they had made a BG 3, so it's really fit for baldur's gate, it won't hurt the game, nor will it change it.

Silence

Big fan of Druid and Bard changes.

Rykn

IWD was 3e rules and BG is 2e. They do not crossover well at all. I can safely say this is not happening.

MilesBeyond

Rykn said:

IWD was 3e rules and BG is 2e. They do not crossover well at all. I can safely say this is not happening.

IWD 2 was 3e. IWD was 2e. Some of these changes borrow from 3e, but even when they do, they're 3e concepts represented in 2e, which happens in BG as well.

Washcloth_Repairman

Illusionists were bad enough in BG2 when they lost only Necromancy, loosing Necro *and* abjuration is terrible.

I'll agree that Conjurer should have it's opposition school changed, or they could just add some Divination spells that are actually worthwhile. I mean, look at Diviner vs Invoker - why lose Conjuration AND divination when you can lose just Conjuration?

Dazzu

Washcloth_Repairman said:

Illusionists were bad enough in BG2 when they lost only Necromancy, loosing Necro *and* abjuration is terrible.

I'll agree that Conjurer should have it's opposition school changed, or they could just add some Divination spells that are actually worthwhile. I mean, look at Diviner vs Invoker - why lose Conjuration AND divination when you can lose just Conjuration?

Because Diviners waste stat points on Wisdom and while that may not seem like a waste in BG2, Wish is a conjuration spell.

Scooter

I like the idea of improved shapeshifting forms as the Druid levels, it would make druids much more useful later in the game

LordsDarkKnight185

Sphere system is pure 2e, though no 2e game included it (divine remix fixed this)

Evil characters cannot cast good(healing) spells is also pure 2e(and3e)-(divine remix fixed this too)

If you want to heal, instead of harm...be good(or neutral)...Deal with it >.>

OssiaN

Spellcasting at 6th level with paladins and rangers seems a very good idea, it would make them more usefull in bg1 and it's a one of the few good things they did in 3rd ed.
Druids shapeshifting needs some love, and the suggested buff seems nice.
I'm not sure on the smite evil and bard song things, they seem a bit redundant and balance breaking...

MilesBeyond

Washcloth_Repairman said:

Illusionists were bad enough in BG2 when they lost only Necromancy, loosing Necro *and* abjuration is terrible.

I'll agree that Conjurer should have it's opposition school changed, or they could just add some Divination spells that are actually worthwhile. I mean, look at Diviner vs Invoker - why lose Conjuration AND divination when you can lose just Conjuration?

Yeah, Illusionists do get hit rather hard (as do Transmuters... But I've never even heard of anyone playing as a Transmuter) but I suppose that's the price they pay for being able to cast both Conjuration and Invocation. In BG1, at least, it's not a huge loss (but in BG2... Yikes!)