So Tolgerias summoned two Curmudgeons???

CharlestonianTemplar

I know just about every monster back to the earliest days of D&D, i,e, the first Monster Manual in the late 70s.

So, when I was fighting Tolgerias in the Planar Sphere (or was it Lavok?), he summoned two 'Curmudgeons' one after the other. Maybe I'm spelling in wrong b/c curmudgeon is a word.

Anyway, anyone know what these are? Is there a description somewhere? (I can't find in any Monster Manual I-III, Fiend Folio, Demonicon or Hordes of the Abyss).

Are they Demons?

What spell is he using to summon them? A Gate brings in a Pit Fiend/Balor so that's not it & neither is Cacofiend.

I've tried for two hours to figure it out to no avail.

I give up...I need help.

CT

Bynary_Fission

Just a question, are you playing with SCS? If so, they may not actually be monsters that exist in D&D - SCS is known for creating new monsters for the sake of creating a challenge. A good example is the Wolf of Ulcaster in BG1 - the notes even admit that it is a made-up creation and not based on any existing creature in D&D lore.

As for what they are, I personally haven't gotten to that stage of the game yet with SCS so I can't quite help you with that question, but you could try looking the .cre up in Near Infinity to get that information.

Zalson

I think you're referring to Cornugon which is a devil/baatezu.

That's the closest spelling equivalent I can think of.

CharlestonianTemplar

Thanks folks.

@ Bynary_Fusion: Yup, I'm playing SCS w/everything installed EXCEPT for the TACTICAL CHALLENGES.

@ Zalson: Probably the 'Cornugon' is correct. I played the battle last weekend &, at the time, I thought I'd remember but I've been racking my brain w/o success. Thanks. I think this is the answer & would make sense.

CT

CharlestonianTemplar

Zalson said:

I think you're referring to Cornugon which is a devil/baatezu.

That's the closest spelling equivalent I can think of.

YUP!!! You were right.

Cornugon (after some research) are the same as The Horned Devil (Malebranch) in Monster Manual I. Greater Devils or Baatezu, but the least of the Greater Devils. They're mentioned as Cornugon in Fiendish Codex I (Tyrant's of the Nine Hells) but you're expected to know that they're Horned Devils from MM I.

Thanks for closing the loop for me. CT

joluv

DreadKhan

Malebranche are different iirc, though I'm referring to the 3.5 Ed, rather than 2nd. In 3.x, Malebranche are given a seperate entry. I suspect someone crossed some wires between editions.

CharlestonianTemplar

DreadKhan said:

Malebranche are different iirc, though I'm referring to the 3.5 Ed, rather than 2nd. In 3.x, Malebranche are given a seperate entry. I suspect someone crossed some wires between editions.

Good feedback. I played AD&D w/p&p back in the 78-82ish & so I know the original entries in the Monster Manual & Fiend Folio (Dungeon Master's Guide, Players Handbook, Deities & Demigods) & The World of Greyhawk out of which Forgotten Realms grew. I've picked up MM2 & MM3, Fiendish Codex I & II, etc., plus I usually check the Baldur's Gate, Forgotten Realms & D&D wiki's for updates but I shy away from the 3.5 versions, et al, for the most part.

I chalk what I DO know up to having lived in Candlekeep w/a library as it's centerpiece for 20 years. When I find updated info I just chalk THAT up to, 'that's what we knew back then but we've learned more since.'

Thanks again for the tip. I'll check that out & learn more lore. CT

DreadKhan

Well, much lore has been REASONABLY consistent, but I'm wondering if the rough translation being 'evil horns' for Malbranche has contributed.

To make things WAY less confusing, we have 2 kinds of spined devils, Spinnagons and Hammatulas.

I do recommend reading the 2 Fiendish Codex books, they give a nice framework to the Abyss and Baator. Nifty books, and helped clear up SOME confusing stuff.

CharlestonianTemplar

Oh, I have both Fiendish Codex's (Hordes of the Abyss) & (Tyrant's of the Nine Hells). I generally make my anti-paladins & Black Guards servants of a Demon Lord or Arch-Devil. I've used the Demon Queen of Succubus (Malcanthet, Abyss Layer 570), Glasya (Lord of the 6th Hell, Asmodeus' Daughter), Fierna (Co-Lord of the 4th Hell) & had created an Evil Ranger that worshipped Baphomet (Prince of Beasts) but that guys on the shelf right now. I think it makes the game funner when you develop that relationship through how the PC was corrupted to serve a Demon Lord or Arch-Devil, especially when you learn everything about the fiend so that your characters colors, worship style, favorite & least favorite creatures, weapons...usually you can find a lot of the in the Arch-Devil or Demon Lords description & as a worshipper your PC would certainly be in lockstep to the best of their abilities. A lot of times too, the description of the fiend will provide some spells or abilities it grants to its worshippers so I use Shadowkeeper to add those to the character over time.

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DreadKhan

@subtledoctor in 3.0, they used 'cool' names for devils, so until 3.5 was released, there were Osyluths... 3.5 reverted to Bone Devils. From what I've read, most previous lore is consistent with Fiendish Codex, unless its 'in the past', ie no longer strictly relevant.

BG2 came out around the time 3.0 was gaining steam, and lots of 3.0isms were included.

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