@Fardragon - I said the exact same thing about Baldur's Gate EE. I was sure it was going to be a flop. I was quite wrong.
The thing is, a BIG portion of the target market range for gamers today is something like 18-35 where it used to be young teenagers exclusively. These are people who grew up on video games and for whom nostalgia is a BIG draw. What's more, these people have disposable cash. Time wasting habits of their (our?) teenage years have carried on into our adult life styles. Most of my adult friends have game systems and spend a good deal of time on them, particularly when they are trying to avoid familial responsibilities. And they are bringing up their kids on gaming. It's become a family affair. Why do you think that the current generation of consoles is being marketed as 'Entertainment' console instead of a gaming console?
As @Archaos indicates, if people can play Minecraft or any of a dozen REALLY popular indie games with 'Very dated' graphics, they will play NWN:EE.
@Fardragon Why do you think NWN came with such a powerful toolset if modding wasn't on the devs' minds? Why did NWN2 come with a toolset as well? The OC of NWN is admittedly crappy but I keep telling you people that wasn't the selling point of NWN anyway!
The point was that you could create your own adventures using that toolset, have your friends join you online, and to have an in-game DM (or multiple DMs) manipulating things behind the scenes while the players are off doing their thing. Has there ever been a game that has done the same thing since then, discounting NWN2? The answer is no. That is what makes NWN unique.
And it looks like you're not aware that NWN's modding community is still fairly active, just like Baldur's Gate's was when the Enhanced Editions were announced. The Community Expansion Pack is still getting new releases - they just updated to v2.61 just a few weeks ago. And just like BG, there are mods to make things better, even the graphics.
I didn't think BGEE would flop. BG has a strong plot and a graphics style that doesn't date. Really, what I am saying is you can't count on "community" to sell your game. You need to have something that is pretty good out the box as well. Get that right, and a modding community may follow. I don't have the statistics here, but I'm pretty sure the majority of NWN1 box sales never modded the game.
The number of moders to players is hardly a damning factor. The Shear number of MODS that were made that people played was prodigious. The number of MODS that were critically acclaimed was not small. And the fact that there are still modders and modding and playing of NWN1 going on today speaks volumes.
But as I stated before, this is all rampant speculation. They've said that they can't do anything for a while, so the topic pretty much rests there. I will say that clearly Trent thinks that it would be a viable product or he wouldn't have been trying to get the license. And he DOES have the statistics. nuff said on the topic.
They can't do a NWN game, but they could possibly do a Pathfinder game in the style of NWN. My view is that would be a much better option to pursue anyway.
What is clear is taking NWN1 and slapping EE on the box isn't going to bring back the modders, nor will it attract new players (seriously, have you looked at those graphics recently? They aren't retro, they are just horrible, like being poked in the eyes with a stick.)
A pathfinder game would be very cool. I'd love that, but it would be a much longer process involving buying/creating a whole new engine and then developing the game from the ground up. If someone is working on such a beast? Sign me up.
As far as NWN is concerned, you've made it clear that YOU would not purchase it. Please don't make the mistake of speaking for anyone else.
As stated, apparently Trent thinks it is a viable option if they can work out the license agreement. I am sure he as done the market research and run the numbers to the point where he believes that it would make money. That's good enough for me because I would absolutely be buying it.
and they did (quite) a bit more than "Slapping EE on the box" with BG and BG2 and IWD, so I think that was an uncalled for statement.
NWN is a very different beast th BG and IWD. Sure, you could create a new campaign, but any idiot can do that, and many people far more talented already have (more talented than Beamdog judging by the BG2EE additional content). But fixing the horrible graphics is pretty much the same as "creating a new engine from the ground up".
Actually, it isn't. Check the thread and the references to the graphical upgrades that the community has already done/worked on.
But at the end of the day, I am sick of fighting the negative attitude. It makes no difference if you believe that this could potentially be a money maker. Believe as you choose. I'm out.
The NWN original campaign was forgettable, but as its been repeatedly stated, that isn't what made the game so memorable. It is the closest thing to playing pen and paper dnd in a computer game that's ever been made. Its all about that toolset, and that dm client.
And an enhanced edition is sorely needed to update the game to modern standards and to run better on modern machines. And there's so much that's been hardcoded in the toolset that could be opened up to the community.
Baldur's Gate's modding community is active and wonderful, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to the same GALAXY as what's been done in the NWN modding community.
Even over a decade after its release, NWN remains the best and most accessible means of playing pen-and-paper style D&D in a graphical engine.
But I'm not being negative, I'm being positive about the news that NWNEE isn't going to be Beamdog's next project.
As for those saying how good NWN was: you can still buy it, it still runs perfectly well on modern PCs, and you can make as much new content for it as you like.
Comments
The thing is, a BIG portion of the target market range for gamers today is something like 18-35 where it used to be young teenagers exclusively. These are people who grew up on video games and for whom nostalgia is a BIG draw. What's more, these people have disposable cash. Time wasting habits of their (our?) teenage years have carried on into our adult life styles. Most of my adult friends have game systems and spend a good deal of time on them, particularly when they are trying to avoid familial responsibilities. And they are bringing up their kids on gaming. It's become a family affair. Why do you think that the current generation of consoles is being marketed as 'Entertainment' console instead of a gaming console?
As @Archaos indicates, if people can play Minecraft or any of a dozen REALLY popular indie games with 'Very dated' graphics, they will play NWN:EE.
Why do you think NWN came with such a powerful toolset if modding wasn't on the devs' minds? Why did NWN2 come with a toolset as well? The OC of NWN is admittedly crappy but I keep telling you people that wasn't the selling point of NWN anyway!
The point was that you could create your own adventures using that toolset, have your friends join you online, and to have an in-game DM (or multiple DMs) manipulating things behind the scenes while the players are off doing their thing. Has there ever been a game that has done the same thing since then, discounting NWN2? The answer is no. That is what makes NWN unique.
And it looks like you're not aware that NWN's modding community is still fairly active, just like Baldur's Gate's was when the Enhanced Editions were announced. The Community Expansion Pack is still getting new releases - they just updated to v2.61 just a few weeks ago. And just like BG, there are mods to make things better, even the graphics.
http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/tileset/nwncq-project
http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/combined/project-q
Speak not such heresy again, you do not know what you're talking about.
The number of moders to players is hardly a damning factor. The Shear number of MODS that were made that people played was prodigious. The number of MODS that were critically acclaimed was not small. And the fact that there are still modders and modding and playing of NWN1 going on today speaks volumes.
But as I stated before, this is all rampant speculation. They've said that they can't do anything for a while, so the topic pretty much rests there. I will say that clearly Trent thinks that it would be a viable product or he wouldn't have been trying to get the license. And he DOES have the statistics. nuff said on the topic.
What is clear is taking NWN1 and slapping EE on the box isn't going to bring back the modders, nor will it attract new players (seriously, have you looked at those graphics recently? They aren't retro, they are just horrible, like being poked in the eyes with a stick.)
As far as NWN is concerned, you've made it clear that YOU would not purchase it. Please don't make the mistake of speaking for anyone else.
As stated, apparently Trent thinks it is a viable option if they can work out the license agreement. I am sure he as done the market research and run the numbers to the point where he believes that it would make money. That's good enough for me because I would absolutely be buying it.
and they did (quite) a bit more than "Slapping EE on the box" with BG and BG2 and IWD, so I think that was an uncalled for statement.
nuff said.
But at the end of the day, I am sick of fighting the negative attitude. It makes no difference if you believe that this could potentially be a money maker. Believe as you choose. I'm out.
And an enhanced edition is sorely needed to update the game to modern standards and to run better on modern machines. And there's so much that's been hardcoded in the toolset that could be opened up to the community.
Baldur's Gate's modding community is active and wonderful, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to the same GALAXY as what's been done in the NWN modding community.
Even over a decade after its release, NWN remains the best and most accessible means of playing pen-and-paper style D&D in a graphical engine.
But I'm not being negative, I'm being positive about the news that NWNEE isn't going to be Beamdog's next project.
As for those saying how good NWN was: you can still buy it, it still runs perfectly well on modern PCs, and you can make as much new content for it as you like.