Proposed Kit Rebalances
MilesBeyond
Member Posts: 324
Alright, so we all know that there were some problems with the kits initially, and those problems are compounded when added in to BG1. So, I've got some proposed changes for some of the standout-problematic kits that will hopefully make them much more viable and a lot more fun.
Basic philosophy:
Nerfs aren't fun. I'm not going to be touching the super-powerful kits. If one kit stands out as being obviously superior, you balance that out by making the other kits better, not the one kit worse. This doesn't hold true with kits that are game-breaking in BG1, BTW.
Overall game balance is being considered. As we're seeing with the importing of kits from BG2 to BG1, just because something works for one game doesn't mean it will work for another.
Overall goal is to have all kits viable. I like Paladins because when you make one, you're never really sure what kit to choose. They're all pretty good options. Some other classes, though, have one or maybe even two kits that you would probably never seriously consider taking - at least, not compared to the other options.
So without further ado, I present:
MilesBeyond's Big List of Kit Rebalances!
Wizard Slayer:
Original:
Advantages:
- For each successful hit on an opponent, 10% cumulative spell failure
penalty is applied.
- 2% magic resistance per level.
ToB:
- At 20th level, gets 5% magic res. every 2 levels
Disadvantages:
- May not use any magic items except for weapons and armor.
Proposed changes:
10% spell failure can bypass ALL magical defenses (at this point in time, it can bypass Stoneskin but not spells like Mantle, Immunity to Normal/Magical Weapons, and Absolute Immunity. This makes it fundamentally questionable because one could achieve similar spell disruption with elemental damage) and works with ranged weapons (at this point in time, it only works on melee hits)
3% magic resistance per level, at 20th level, gets 5% every level
As it stands right now, the Wizard Slayer isn't even the best anti-mage class (that would be the Inquisitor), nor the most magic-resistant class (that would be the Monk), and yet still has stringent disadvantages when fighting non-mages. These changes would make the Wizard Slayer into a real terror to enemy mages. A Wizard Slayer with GM in bows, for instance, could easily bring a mage up to 100% casting failure within a couple of rounds, even if he doesn't do any damage.
This is balanced by the fact that the restriction on items still makes the Wizard Slayer kinda crappy (compared to Kensai and Berserker) against non-magic using enemies.
Jester:
Original:
Advantages:
- Jester's song does not help allies. Instead, it affects every opponent
within 30 feet, and they must save vs. magic at +4 once per round or be
confused.
Disadvantages:
- None
Proposed changes:
Jester's song affects 1d3 enemies +1 every second level (so at level 6, the song would affect 3-6 enemies)
At 8th level, song affects all enemies within 30 feet
At 11th level, song adds a -2 penalty to enemy's saving throws, increased by an additional -1 every other level
The problems with the Jester are twofold: First, his Confusion is way too effective at the start of BG1. By putting a limit on how many enemies can be confused, this will hopefully keep the game from being too easy.
The second problem, of course, is that in BG2 this kit was absolute rubbish because after a couple levels, basically the only enemies in the game who would fail their saving throws are ones you could easily slaughter anyway. By adding in a saving throw penalty, this helps keep the song competitive at later levels (probably need a cap on the penalty growth, considering how Bards can reach level 40 LOL)
Skald:
Original:
- +1 to hit and +1 damage with all weapons.
- The skald's song is different from the typical bard and varies with
level:
- 1st: Gives allies +2 to hit, +2 to damage and -2 to AC.
- 15th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity
to fear.
- 20th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity
to fear, stun and confusion.
Disadvantages:
- Pick Pockets ability one-quarter normal.
Proposed changes:
1st level song: Gives allies +1 to hit, damage and AC
5th level song: Gives allies +2 to hit, damage and AC
A very minor change to, again, keep Skalds from breaking the game early on
HOWEVER! We're not quite done with the Skald yet!
25th level: Enhanced Bard Song gives +6 to hit, damage and -6 to AC of allies
29th level: Enhanced Bard song gives +8 to hit, damage and -8 to AC of allies
The problem was that the Enhanced Bard Song made the Skald's bonuses entirely redundant. You can pick a Blade, and with EBS his buffs are just as good as the Skald's but with his Blade fighting goodness. This aims to fix that and make the Skald a viable kit in ToB
Shapeshifter:
Original:
Advantages:
- May shapeshift into the form of a werewolf once per day for every 2
levels (starts at 1st level with one use).
- At 13th level, gains the ability to change into a greater werewolf once
per day.
Disadvantages:
- No other shapeshifting abilities due to the effort required maintaining
balance in his primary forms.
- Cannot wear any armor.
Proposed changes:
At 1st level, may shapeshift into the form of a lesser werewolf once per day for every 2 levels
At 7th level, may shapeshift into the form of a werewolf once per day for every 2 levels
At 14th level, may cast spells while shapeshifted.
So the problem here, again, is twofold: A kit that is absurdly powerful in early BG1, but simply ineffectual in later BG2. Adding in a lesser werewolf form (precise stats would need to be determined, but the idea is that it's a weaker werewolf form than the normal) would make it a playable option rather than a silly gambreaker. Adding in the original form at level 7 would make it still a possibility for BG1 endgame.
I toyed with the idea of adding in a sort of Alpha-Werewolf form or something at higher levels, but I decided that better werewolf forms aren't really the solution. The reason why the Shapeshifter is kind of pathetic is because he sacrifices his main strength (spellcasting) in order to become a fighter that, most of the time, will likely be worse at fighting than your actual Fighters.
A good analogy to the Shapeshifter would be a Mage kit that cannot use robes, wands or rings, and in exchange can use Tenser's Transformation as a special ability.
So to me, the real solution to the Shapeshifter's woes is eventually allowing it to cast spells while in wolf form. This will make it a much more viable class, in my opinion. It might even seem a bit powerful, to some, but bear in mind that with a restriction like "Cannot wear armour," you NEED power.
Totemic Druid:
Basically just two changes here. The problem is the Totemic Druid's critters' immunities cause them to absolutely decimate BG1 with no challenge whatsoever. So, two attributes of the summons will be given at higher levels
At 5th level: Spirit Animals gain 100% resistance to Cold and Electricity
At 7th level: Spirit Animals gain immunity to normal weapons.
Both abilities that would otherwise be present at level 1, utterly breaking the game. Now they're distributed more evenly, with the second one easily obtainable by the end of BG1.
I would also like to consider adding in some benefits to make the summons gain power at higher levels, again, to keep them interesting in ToB.
There are two kits that I think need rebalancing, but that I'm not entirely sure on what to do with them: The Beastmaster and the Bounty Hunter.
The Beastmaster, I have a couple of ideas for. Right now I think the best idea would be to give the Beastmaster access to other animal-summoning spells like Spider Spawn, Carrion Summons (okay, kind of useless, in there more for the sake of the theme), Conjure Animals (surprisingly both different from and better than Animal Summoning III) and Wyvern Call. Another possibility could be to remove the restriction on metal weapons.
Bounty Hunter is in the same boat as the Skald in that its an otherwise good kit that becomes absolute garbage in ToB thanks to its speciality being made redundant by HLAs. In ToB, a Swashbuckler gets just as good traps as a Bounty Hunter while being a much better fighter, so what's the point?
Allowing the Bounty Hunter to get stronger versions of the HLA traps, or to get special Bounty Hunter traps that are competitive to the HLAs, would be a huge improvement.
The other kits I'm happy with. Avenger and Stalker could possibly benefit from some tweaking, but I think they're okay as is.
So...
Thoughts?
Basic philosophy:
Nerfs aren't fun. I'm not going to be touching the super-powerful kits. If one kit stands out as being obviously superior, you balance that out by making the other kits better, not the one kit worse. This doesn't hold true with kits that are game-breaking in BG1, BTW.
Overall game balance is being considered. As we're seeing with the importing of kits from BG2 to BG1, just because something works for one game doesn't mean it will work for another.
Overall goal is to have all kits viable. I like Paladins because when you make one, you're never really sure what kit to choose. They're all pretty good options. Some other classes, though, have one or maybe even two kits that you would probably never seriously consider taking - at least, not compared to the other options.
So without further ado, I present:
MilesBeyond's Big List of Kit Rebalances!
Wizard Slayer:
Original:
Advantages:
- For each successful hit on an opponent, 10% cumulative spell failure
penalty is applied.
- 2% magic resistance per level.
ToB:
- At 20th level, gets 5% magic res. every 2 levels
Disadvantages:
- May not use any magic items except for weapons and armor.
Proposed changes:
10% spell failure can bypass ALL magical defenses (at this point in time, it can bypass Stoneskin but not spells like Mantle, Immunity to Normal/Magical Weapons, and Absolute Immunity. This makes it fundamentally questionable because one could achieve similar spell disruption with elemental damage) and works with ranged weapons (at this point in time, it only works on melee hits)
3% magic resistance per level, at 20th level, gets 5% every level
As it stands right now, the Wizard Slayer isn't even the best anti-mage class (that would be the Inquisitor), nor the most magic-resistant class (that would be the Monk), and yet still has stringent disadvantages when fighting non-mages. These changes would make the Wizard Slayer into a real terror to enemy mages. A Wizard Slayer with GM in bows, for instance, could easily bring a mage up to 100% casting failure within a couple of rounds, even if he doesn't do any damage.
This is balanced by the fact that the restriction on items still makes the Wizard Slayer kinda crappy (compared to Kensai and Berserker) against non-magic using enemies.
Jester:
Original:
Advantages:
- Jester's song does not help allies. Instead, it affects every opponent
within 30 feet, and they must save vs. magic at +4 once per round or be
confused.
Disadvantages:
- None
Proposed changes:
Jester's song affects 1d3 enemies +1 every second level (so at level 6, the song would affect 3-6 enemies)
At 8th level, song affects all enemies within 30 feet
At 11th level, song adds a -2 penalty to enemy's saving throws, increased by an additional -1 every other level
The problems with the Jester are twofold: First, his Confusion is way too effective at the start of BG1. By putting a limit on how many enemies can be confused, this will hopefully keep the game from being too easy.
The second problem, of course, is that in BG2 this kit was absolute rubbish because after a couple levels, basically the only enemies in the game who would fail their saving throws are ones you could easily slaughter anyway. By adding in a saving throw penalty, this helps keep the song competitive at later levels (probably need a cap on the penalty growth, considering how Bards can reach level 40 LOL)
Skald:
Original:
- +1 to hit and +1 damage with all weapons.
- The skald's song is different from the typical bard and varies with
level:
- 1st: Gives allies +2 to hit, +2 to damage and -2 to AC.
- 15th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity
to fear.
- 20th: Gives allies +4 to hit, +4 to damage, -4 to AC, and immunity
to fear, stun and confusion.
Disadvantages:
- Pick Pockets ability one-quarter normal.
Proposed changes:
1st level song: Gives allies +1 to hit, damage and AC
5th level song: Gives allies +2 to hit, damage and AC
A very minor change to, again, keep Skalds from breaking the game early on
HOWEVER! We're not quite done with the Skald yet!
25th level: Enhanced Bard Song gives +6 to hit, damage and -6 to AC of allies
29th level: Enhanced Bard song gives +8 to hit, damage and -8 to AC of allies
The problem was that the Enhanced Bard Song made the Skald's bonuses entirely redundant. You can pick a Blade, and with EBS his buffs are just as good as the Skald's but with his Blade fighting goodness. This aims to fix that and make the Skald a viable kit in ToB
Shapeshifter:
Original:
Advantages:
- May shapeshift into the form of a werewolf once per day for every 2
levels (starts at 1st level with one use).
- At 13th level, gains the ability to change into a greater werewolf once
per day.
Disadvantages:
- No other shapeshifting abilities due to the effort required maintaining
balance in his primary forms.
- Cannot wear any armor.
Proposed changes:
At 1st level, may shapeshift into the form of a lesser werewolf once per day for every 2 levels
At 7th level, may shapeshift into the form of a werewolf once per day for every 2 levels
At 14th level, may cast spells while shapeshifted.
So the problem here, again, is twofold: A kit that is absurdly powerful in early BG1, but simply ineffectual in later BG2. Adding in a lesser werewolf form (precise stats would need to be determined, but the idea is that it's a weaker werewolf form than the normal) would make it a playable option rather than a silly gambreaker. Adding in the original form at level 7 would make it still a possibility for BG1 endgame.
I toyed with the idea of adding in a sort of Alpha-Werewolf form or something at higher levels, but I decided that better werewolf forms aren't really the solution. The reason why the Shapeshifter is kind of pathetic is because he sacrifices his main strength (spellcasting) in order to become a fighter that, most of the time, will likely be worse at fighting than your actual Fighters.
A good analogy to the Shapeshifter would be a Mage kit that cannot use robes, wands or rings, and in exchange can use Tenser's Transformation as a special ability.
So to me, the real solution to the Shapeshifter's woes is eventually allowing it to cast spells while in wolf form. This will make it a much more viable class, in my opinion. It might even seem a bit powerful, to some, but bear in mind that with a restriction like "Cannot wear armour," you NEED power.
Totemic Druid:
Basically just two changes here. The problem is the Totemic Druid's critters' immunities cause them to absolutely decimate BG1 with no challenge whatsoever. So, two attributes of the summons will be given at higher levels
At 5th level: Spirit Animals gain 100% resistance to Cold and Electricity
At 7th level: Spirit Animals gain immunity to normal weapons.
Both abilities that would otherwise be present at level 1, utterly breaking the game. Now they're distributed more evenly, with the second one easily obtainable by the end of BG1.
I would also like to consider adding in some benefits to make the summons gain power at higher levels, again, to keep them interesting in ToB.
There are two kits that I think need rebalancing, but that I'm not entirely sure on what to do with them: The Beastmaster and the Bounty Hunter.
The Beastmaster, I have a couple of ideas for. Right now I think the best idea would be to give the Beastmaster access to other animal-summoning spells like Spider Spawn, Carrion Summons (okay, kind of useless, in there more for the sake of the theme), Conjure Animals (surprisingly both different from and better than Animal Summoning III) and Wyvern Call. Another possibility could be to remove the restriction on metal weapons.
Bounty Hunter is in the same boat as the Skald in that its an otherwise good kit that becomes absolute garbage in ToB thanks to its speciality being made redundant by HLAs. In ToB, a Swashbuckler gets just as good traps as a Bounty Hunter while being a much better fighter, so what's the point?
Allowing the Bounty Hunter to get stronger versions of the HLA traps, or to get special Bounty Hunter traps that are competitive to the HLAs, would be a huge improvement.
The other kits I'm happy with. Avenger and Stalker could possibly benefit from some tweaking, but I think they're okay as is.
So...
Thoughts?
4
Comments
The Jester does need some help in BG 2, so it's good to give him some more strength.
Druids also need some help.
Overall excellent and well balanced ideas that would vastly improve the game experience with those classes by making them even more unique and diverse.
You hit on the spot for each of these classes.
I would recommand something for the plain bard tough, as after these changes he would clearly be left out.
And for the Wizard Slayer Re balance, this was discussed thoroughly in a different thread ;
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4005/an-in-depth-look-at-the-wizard-slayer-kit-suggestions-to-improve-it-for-phils-reddit-request#latest
Also, some of the changes on this list are way over powered. The skald for example at 29th level:( Enhanced Bard song gives +8 to hit, damage and -8 to AC of allies). Wooah, keep in mind this is going to be applied to an entire party..so I think a max of +4 is sufficient.
TRUE FIGHTERS: are getting PnP Power Attack and Combat Expertise from 1st lvl, and at mid-high lvls they get free proficiency and specialization in all weapons to increase their versatility. Last but not least, I've more recently added them a revised Called Shot ability (similar to vanilla Archer ability early on, but at mid-high lvls it now includes abilities such as Sunder, Disarm and Knockdown/Trip).
BARBARIAN: kit doesn't get any new disadvantage. Rage has been heavily changed to make this class much more unique compared to the Berserker (with the former being a STR/DEX build, while the latter remains a STR/CON build).
BERSERKER: is brobably going to not get any new disadvantage in the end, because the chance to go berserk is difficult to handle. Instead, it will become even more powerful with new PnP-like features such as Deathless Frenzy.
KENSAI: kit not only doesn't get any new disadvantage, but it's now allowed to wear Bracers of Armor (only bracers though - no gauntlets).
WIZARD SLAYER: will be allowed to wear and use ANY item. I'm only restricting the class to light armors because heavy armors are pointless against mages, and with Item Revisions heavy armor's encumberance is actually problematic when fighting mages (slower attack speed factor, and optionally slower movement rate too). You mean the +1/2 attack per round being moved to mastery (+++)? I understand your concern, but I'd like to point out that this is actually more close to PnP (where non-fighters cannot get specialization) and I do think it's a necessary change to both improve true fighters' appeal and balance all the improvements other warrior classes will get (e.g. Paladins get Smite Evil; Rangers get a better Favored Enemy ability, Tracking and few other things; both Paladins and Rangers start to cast spells at 4th level within my mod - instead of vanilla's 9th and 8th level respectively; etc.). Well, at least I did something you liked!
To be clear, I consider the change in weapon mastery to be a major disadvantage for every other warrior class and even the fighter kits (Barbarian, Wizard Slayer).
The weapon mastery thing is a big deal for me. I *know* the argument is that this form of weapon specialization is closer to PnP. And I agree - in it's current form, weapon mastery sucks. My problem is that in a game heavily based around combat, in which weapons of your specialty are easily available, true grandmastery just too big of an advantage. I think what you've proposed - the stances - is already a kickass bonus. Combine those stances with a big to hit/damage boost on weapon mastery (instead of the vanilla +3), and that's enough. You don't need to step on the ranger and paladin to make the true class fighter appealing again, you only need to boost the fighter.
My policy is always this: do not nerf. When there's class inequality, raise the quality of the poor class. Don't change the qualities of the other classes. People aren't complaining about the attacks rangers and paladins have. These classes aren't the broken ones that need fixing.
I've seen Diablo 2 go down this road too many time to count. Every patch you have to remake your character, lol.
Seriously though, great job. I'm sure the mod is gonna be really big hit when completely done.
I hope the changes to Favored Enemy is to make it similar to 3E where you get an extra favoured enemy every 4 (?) levels.
On a side note, Wizard Slayer is restricted to Mastery (***) right now, and thus keeps the same apr it had within vanilla BG2. If I manage to make the True Fighter base class is better I might be able to give GrandMastery again to WS, but right now I feel it's necessary to balance all WS advantages. The idea isn't to nerf paladins and rangers, but to make them good in their own unique way instead of relying on fighter's strong features. These two classes may lose 1/2 apr compared to vanilla, but they will get A LOT of new tools to shine in and out of combat.
PALADINS: get 3E-like Smite Evil ability (finally their Detect Evil ability has a purpose), an improved Lay on Hands ability, and PnP-like Aura of Protection. On top of that getting 1st lvl spells at 4th lvl (and 2nd lvl spells at 8th lvl) is a HUGE difference, especially considering that getting them at 9th lvl meant not getting them at all within BG1. Wouldn't you trade 1/2 attack per round for all that?
RANGERS: see above. Also note that Spell Revisions heavily improves druid/ranger spellbooks. Tracking will also allow Rangers to detect invisible creatures within 30 feet (not sure if it needs a % chance, or allow a save). Note that unlike clerics druid/rangers don't get Invisibility Purge spell, thus this feature is very useful imo. Well, what I can do largely depends on what BGEE will do to reduce its hardcodeness, but I can already do few things.
For example an easy tweak is to revise the HateRace.2da and make the available choices hugely more effective. For example, vanilla's Ranger can pick either ghouls, vampires or liches as his favored enemy, while KR's Ranger will be able to pick Undead Creatures as a whole (as per PnP). Beholders and Mind Flayer will be included into Aberrations instead of being different picks, and so on with Outsiders, Magical Beasts, etc.
Technically, adding more Favored Enemies every x levels is doable, but its implementation would be really suboptimal because it would have to be done in-game via dialogue. I don't like that solution, and thus unless BGEE will offer me other opportunities I think I'll improve it in other ways (e.g. a la Refinements mod). At least the above mentioned tweak will make it as if the ranger gets multiple favored enemies compared to vanilla's version.