Evasion

Nitesco

How does Evasion work in Icewind Dale? Does it improve beyond level 7?

Zyzzogeton

Thieves save twice vs spells that allow for reduced damage. First save is for no damage, second save (if the first fails) is the normal save.

It doesn't improve.

Nitesco

Zyzzogeton said:

Thieves save twice vs spells that allow for reduced damage. First save is for no damage, second save (if the first fails) is the normal save.

It doesn't improve.

Do you think it's worth taking 7 levels of Thief for before dual-classing?

Aerich

yes. It's a minimal xp cost for a useful survival skill.

Merina

It's a trade-off when dual-classing to a warrior or priest. You would get less HP the later you dual-class.

Nitesco

Aerich said:

yes. It's a minimal xp cost for a useful survival skill.

Would Thief 7 be enough to get traps and/or locks? Is there any reason to progress beyond Thief 7, outside of sneak attack damage?

Merina

Thief 3 -> Fighter is enough to get 100 Find Traps skill to disarm traps and then become a great fighter. For the few locks you cannot break, someone can learn the Knock spell.

If you want to pickpocket people without save'n'reload, you may want to run with a multi-class thief. For your planned playthroughs at Core/Hard difficulty, there are enough options to squeeze a thief class into your party.

Sneak attack damage is a matter of taste. I don't find it worthwhile ... there are other ways to fight the enemies. My thief usually is a ranged fighter, does not wear heavy armor and is always ready to find and disarm traps.

Lord_Tansheron

While Evasion sounds useful and lvl7 is not that steep a cost, you have to ask yourself where the skill actually matters. There are VERY few instances where enemies even use attacks that could be evaded, and even fewer occasions where the thief is the one getting hit. I honestly can't remember even one case where it actually would have come into play for me, though I'm sure there are one or two spots I'm just forgetting.

Nitesco

Merina said:

Thief 3 -> Fighter is enough to get 100 Find Traps skill to disarm traps and then become a great fighter. For the few locks you cannot break, someone can learn the Knock spell.

If you want to pickpocket people without save'n'reload, you may want to run with a multi-class thief. For your planned playthroughs at Core/Hard difficulty, there are enough options to squeeze a thief class into your party.

Sneak attack damage is a matter of taste. I don't find it worthwhile ... there are other ways to fight the enemies. My thief usually is a ranged fighter, does not wear heavy armor and is always ready to find and disarm traps.

I was thinking of using a Half-Elf Bard for picking pockets. I doubt I would have the patience for sneak attacks and backstabbing.

IIRC I played a pure Thief in Baldur's Gate primarily as an archer.

Nitesco

Lord_Tansheron said:

While Evasion sounds useful and lvl7 is not that steep a cost, you have to ask yourself where the skill actually matters. There are VERY few instances where enemies even use attacks that could be evaded, and even fewer occasions where the thief is the one getting hit. I honestly can't remember even one case where it actually would have come into play for me, though I'm sure there are one or two spots I'm just forgetting.

While I'm not familiar with Icewind Dale game mechanics, other iterations of D&D I am familar with have traps/spells which can be evaded.

I would have thought that zero-half damage from such effects in Icewind Dale wouldn't be negligable (not being interruped as a caster is one that springs to mind).

Always happy to be proven wrong though.

Zyzzogeton

0 damage still interrupts casting. If the hit isn't negated (stuff like weapon immunities) or redirected (to a Mirror Image or Stoneskin for example) then it can interrupt no matter how much damage it does (0 or less, the damage heals a character)

But the idea is that there are very very very very few attacks that enemies use that trigger Evasion.

Nitesco

Okay, so Evasion is useless outside of some specific gauntlet my Thief would have to run which I am unfamilar with due to the fact that I've never played through the game before.

Given that it hasn't been raised in this discussion thus far, I may safely conclude that Evasion is irrelevant in IWD (non-EE).

Aerich

Does not evasion assist against spells cast by your own party? I hardly notice any feedback about it in IWDEE, but I recall it was a great skill for monks tanking for spellcasters in IWD2.

Nitesco

Aerich said:

Does not evasion assist against spells cast by your own party? I hardly notice any feedback about it in IWDEE, but I recall it was a great skill for monks tanking for spellcasters in IWD2.

I am also considering this from the perspective of being within the area of effect of my own spells as a Thief > Mage.

Zyzzogeton

I haven't bothered testing it, but doesn't the description say Evasion won't work on that character's own spells?

Nitesco

Zyzzogeton said:

I haven't bothered testing it, but doesn't the description say Evasion won't work on that character's own spells?

I'm not sure, as I'm running the original version of the game and haven't seen any refernce to Evasion in any of the literature.

That could easily be due to personal laziness.

Nitesco

Zyzzogeton said:

I haven't bothered testing it, but doesn't the description say Evasion won't work on that character's own spells?

I found a reference to Evasion and you are indeed correct, it won't work on a character's own spells.

Aerich

I agree that it doesn't work on one's own spells, but I haven't seen any indication that it does not work on the spells of the character's allies. It did work that way in IWD2.