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Neverwinter, DDO, or something else?

VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
Hello all! I'm getting into my inevitable MMO mood (unfortunately) once again and as I'm avoiding WoW since I already donated a good 7 years of my life to that I'm looking at playing a D&D based game. I'm looking at the Neverwinter MMO, DDO, and maybe playing something like Baldur's Gate Chronicles on NWN2 as it's sort of a pseudo-MMO it would seem. I'm not seeking to pay any money or anything so what do you guys think would be the best free-to-play experience?

Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,993
    DDO is somewhat interesting due to its Eberron setting, though for the most parts it still is a Pay-To-Win Freemium game. Never touched Neverwinter, but from what I've heard about it I wouldn't waste my time with it. In fact, I wouldn't recommend any MMO's at all and stick with Persistant Worlds of NWN, NWN2, or similar games. Or possibly PokeMMO if you enjoyed Pokemon FireRed in your childhood.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Persistent worlds all the way.

    the_spyderArchaos
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    Yeah, it would seem persistent world is probably the best way to go especially since I want heavy RP. I have Baldur's Gate Chronicles installed on my NWN2 so I guess I'll start with that! Any other cool persistent worlds I should check out for NWN or NWN2?

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    There is (or was?) a persistent world based on the Baldur's gate region. If I remember correctly it was called 'Sword Coast Chronicles' (or maybe Baldur's Gate Sword Coast Chronicles) for NWN2. It was quite good as I recall. There were a few issues that I had directionally with it, but they were largely ignorable (and may have been corrected).

    http://www.bgtscc1.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=96

    There's loads of fun to be had there and it is a Role play server, so you can expect at least some attempt at a role play environment.

    I would suggest it over MMOs because it is a smaller community (maybe 2 dozen players at any given time on the server, with peak times close to 50 or so). It's a lot easier to form friendships and actually more organic parties that way. Plus the attention to detail surrounding the BG setting was quite impressive.

    Just a note, read the rules before starting. They (used to?) have some unusual ones associated with leveling and spells. Good luck.

    FinneousPJVallmyrJuliusBorisov
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2015
    NwN2's Persistent Worlds and never look back.

    -Constantly updated with new and free content.
    -Actual roleplaying compared to MMO "RPGs" which are grind and raid fests.
    -Community based which means you can make actual friends and trolls are easily detected and banned.
    -Variety when it comes to the worlds.

    There's the Baldur's Gate server, Dalelands Beyond (Shadowdale city of Elminster, Myth Drannor etc), Sigil (Planescape setting with a TON of custom races like vampire, ogre, djin, half-celestial/fiends/dragon, constructs etc), Haven (erotic/social and not for serious roleplaying and mostly for fun or fantasies) and various minor ones that are not as popular.

    The big four are BG, Haven, Sigil, DB but it depends and it constantly changes.

    For NwN1, there's the biggest PW which is an ERP/Social server and next is the Ravenloft server which I need to check sometime. Not a big player of NwN1 PWs though, even though it has the most people even now.

    You also need to check this for more details: http://www.nwnlist.com/
    It tells you which server is live in real time and how many people it has as well as information.

    Remember that for NwN2, official support is gone so to play online you need a plugin called "Skywing's Client Extender" which can be found in the NeverwinterVault.
    Alternatively, you can just type the IP address in Direct Connect and it will take you there but it offers a few more functions as well.

    Vallmyrthe_spyder
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    @Archaos Yeah, I have the client extender. Atm I'm taking 20 billion years to decide what sort of char I want to roleplay on the Sword Coast Chronicles server. Also, I hadn't realized that ERP was so popular /blinks.

    I think persistent worlds are the best way to go because there is actual roleplaying. I hardcore RPed on WoW and though the community I was with was super nice/amazing we were still trolled for RPing on an RP server. /shrugs, people are douchebags >_>

    the_spyder
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2015
    @Vallmyr I would make a Cleric perhaps, since they can do a bit of everything in 3.5E (heal, buff, resurrect, summon, kill, damage, tank) even more so with Domains, of some common god you like and go from there.

    There's also an Underdark part (also in DB) where you can RP an evil race (Drow, Gray Orc, Duergar etc) or whatever you want.

    There's no limit to the amount of characters you can make, so go wild and experiment but remember to follow the rules of the PW.

    MMOs are not an option for actual, serious, hardcore RP. It's the nature of the beast.
    On PWs you have people that are proficient with lore and rules and take it seriously.

    Also, did I say that the BG PW is set before the Time of Troubles? You can select Bhaal or Myrkul as deities and RP as an actual Cleric of Bhaal. Or a Blackguard or Assassin of Bhaal and Necromancer of Myrkul.

    About the ERP, sex was/is/will be an important part of human nature and it's not going to change any time soon, and there's nothing wrong with that. People will always be drawn to erotic forms of art in any media.

    Vallmyr
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    Archaos said:

    @Vallmyr I would make a Cleric perhaps, since they can do a bit of everything in 3.5E (heal, buff, resurrect, summon, kill, damage, tank) even more so with Domains, of some common god you like and go from there.

    There's also an Underdark part (also in DB) where you can RP an evil race (Drow, Gray Orc, Duergar etc) or whatever you want.

    There's no limit to the amount of characters you can make, so go wild and experiment but remember to follow the rules of the PW.

    MMOs are not an option for actual, serious, hardcore RP. It's the nature of the beast.
    On PWs you have people that are proficient with lore and rules and take it seriously.

    Also, did I say that the BG PW is set before the Time of Troubles? You can select Bhaal or Myrkul as deities and RP as an actual Cleric of Bhaal. Or a Blackguard or Assassin of Bhaal and Necromancer of Myrkul.

    About the ERP, sex was/is/will be an important part of human nature and it's not going to change any time soon, and there's nothing wrong with that. People will always be drawn to erotic forms of art in any media.

    Well that's exciting! I'll probably play a Drow Cleric of Mrykul and be a Necromancer since I do play Necros like 90% of the time lol.

    And I'm actually intrigued by the ERP type servers as I might check them out to see if there are any other people who share my weird obsession with short races.

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2015
    @Vallmyr Lorewise, I am not sure if a Drow Cleric of Myrkul fits since it's more of a surface deity.
    Drow have their own gods that follow in the Underdark.
    Kiaransalee is the Drow goddess of undead and necromancy so it might more fitting to worship her.

    It's not forbidden to worship Myrkul as a Drow, it would just be weird In Character-wise I think.
    But you can ask on the forums and DMs and players alike will tell you if it can work out.

    Alternatively, you can make a Tiefling or corrupted Aasimar or Half-Drow for example.
    The Underdark city is not traditional Lolth-worshipping so "heretics" are not persecuted for example.
    It's an Underdark merchant city for evil chars.

    Also, there are various changes to races/classes/spells as well as new custom ones such as teleportation spells.
    Teleporting from Durlag's Tower to Baldur's Gate = awesome.

    About the shorties, the most popular are female halflings on Haven (social server). Dwarves and Gnomes are ultra rare.
    And yes, others share those preferences but I am not one, heh.


    EDIT: I should add, Drow Necrosorcerer/ess Pale Master of Kiaransalee = awesomeness.
    Makes ton of sense lore-wise, Spell Resistance, ton of immunities on top of spells and Charisma synergy.
    Drow get +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Con, Sorcerer is Cha-based and Pale Master uses Cha for his touch abilities.

    Post edited by Archaos on
    FinneousPJVallmyr
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    edited June 2015
    Archaos said:

    @Vallmyr Lorewise, I am not sure if a Drow Cleric of Myrkul fits since it's more of a surface deity.
    Drow have their own gods that follow in the Underdark.
    Kiaransalee is the Drow goddess of undead and necromancy so it might more fitting to worship her.

    It's not forbidden to worship Myrkul as a Drow, it would just be weird In Character-wise I think.
    But you can ask on the forums and DMs and players alike will tell you if it can work out.

    Alternatively, you can make a Tiefling or corrupted Aasimar or Half-Drow for example.
    The Underdark city is not traditional Lolth-worshipping so "heretics" are not persecuted for example.
    It's an Underdark merchant city for evil chars.

    Also, there are various changes to races/classes/spells as well as new custom ones such as teleportation spells.
    Teleporting from Durlag's Tower to Baldur's Gate = awesome.

    About the shorties, the most popular are female halflings on Haven (social server). Dwarves and Gnomes are ultra rare.
    And yes, others share those preferences but I am not one, heh.


    EDIT: I should add, Drow Necrosorcerer/ess Pale Master of Kiaransalee = awesomeness.
    Makes ton of sense lore-wise, Spell Resistance, ton of immunities on top of spells and Charisma synergy.
    Drow get +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Con, Sorcerer is Cha-based and Pale Master uses Cha for his touch abilities.

    HOLY CRAP THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT IDEA.

    Thank you, brb doing that.

    Edit: So I think what I'll do is since I have 2 RP characters I normally go with, Val'myr and Piro, I'll make Val a Drow Necrosorcerer/Pale Master and Piro a gnome Cleric.

    Post edited by Vallmyr on
    FinneousPJ
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Just a couple of caveats regarding the Sword Coast chronicles. (it's been a few years so some or all of this may have changed)

    1. You HAVE to take a minimum of 3 levels in every class your character will ever have, BEFORE 20th. So if you plan on having something where you save one class till 20+, you are out of luck.

    2. If you play on the surface, Necromancy is illegal. I'm not saying you can't cast it, but people will role play and report you for it. They've even used it as an excuse to PvP. I played a Necro on that server for a while and it could get dicy at times, particularly if you go Pale master or simply want to summon undead.

    3. In several of the community hubs like BG proper or The Friendly Arm Inn, entering the area strips off any buffs that you have going. If you are heavy on Buffs, going into town can leave you defenseless. And people will nag you if you are resting all the time or in common areas.

    4. HiPs used to be a HUGE issue. I don't know if this has changed, but if you can't do it or you can't defend against it, you are pretty much done as far as PvP. To be clear, I played several years back so this may have changed. Just saying, keep it in mind and ask around before you finalize your character.

    Have fun with it.

    Vallmyr
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367

    Just a couple of caveats regarding the Sword Coast chronicles. (it's been a few years so some or all of this may have changed)

    1. You HAVE to take a minimum of 3 levels in every class your character will ever have, BEFORE 20th. So if you plan on having something where you save one class till 20+, you are out of luck.

    2. If you play on the surface, Necromancy is illegal. I'm not saying you can't cast it, but people will role play and report you for it. They've even used it as an excuse to PvP. I played a Necro on that server for a while and it could get dicy at times, particularly if you go Pale master or simply want to summon undead.

    3. In several of the community hubs like BG proper or The Friendly Arm Inn, entering the area strips off any buffs that you have going. If you are heavy on Buffs, going into town can leave you defenseless. And people will nag you if you are resting all the time or in common areas.

    4. HiPs used to be a HUGE issue. I don't know if this has changed, but if you can't do it or you can't defend against it, you are pretty much done as far as PvP. To be clear, I played several years back so this may have changed. Just saying, keep it in mind and ask around before you finalize your character.

    Have fun with it.

    From what I saw they made the Shadowdancer more difficult to enter with a 19 dex requirement. Also, I'll keep in mind about the necro thing and my characters will most definitely only use such things when either alone or in dire circumstance because that makes the RP cooler n_n

    I made a Necrosorcerer Drow and was exploring the Drow city but I entered a tomb and the game crashed QQ Going to try again in a bit.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    I'm glad to hear that they 'Fixed' the HiPs thing. That was a royal pain back when I played.

    Hope you have loads of fun. There is LOTS of content and a decent number of good players/DMs there. Some of the 'Events' are quite enjoyable as well.

    One final note (though it might be a bit late in the day), I found that with the rest restrictions in place, you did better if you actually had some combat ability. Again, not to say you couldn't play as a straight caster (I did it for a long while), just saying that the server mechanics tended to favor combat characters for any sort of Solo Venture. But then the point is to play in a party, right?

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2015
    @Vallmyr I would recommend Dwarf instead of Gnome for a Cleric. Best with Gold Dwarf (+2 Con, -2 Dex instead of +2 Con, -2 Cha).

    As a Gnome, you won't be able to carry as much weight because of encumbrance penalties and there's a -2 STR penalty on top.

    A Dwarf gets no such penalties, it's more traditional for a Dwarf to be a Cleric or Fighter and there are Dwarven deities with favored weapons like axes, hammers and swords.
    With the War Domain (if a dwarven deity has it), you get proficiency (with the whole group) and Weapon Focus (+1 to attack) with that weapon.
    Plus offensive spells from the War Domain for a battlepriest type.

    I would recommend Gorm as a deity (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Gorm_Gulthyn). The Dwarven Waraxe is a free exotic weapon for Dwarves and you get a +1 AB on top with the War Domain.

    Gnomes are best used for Bards, Druids, Rogues and mages. Basically anything that is not STR dependent.

    Also, remember to either disable or tone down the shadow settings. They are the number one cause of crashes and FPS reduction.


    Finally, I would start with that Dwarf Cleric first to get to know the server and the game, before playing the Drow Sorc.
    Not only is it harder to RP in the Underdark, its areas are more dangerous, you get a +2 LA penalty for being a Drow and mages are a pain to level in the beginning.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    @Archaos has some very good points, particularly in exploring a new server. I would point out that in the BG server, they take very seriously the relationship between what Deity you worship and what domains you choose. They have a forum thread that delineates all of them (and not all of them are what you might think). Plus you are expected to play in character (just in case you weren't going too) as well. Makes it hard if you are playing a Cleric of an Evil God on the surface, but that is the way it should be.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367

    @Archaos has some very good points, particularly in exploring a new server. I would point out that in the BG server, they take very seriously the relationship between what Deity you worship and what domains you choose. They have a forum thread that delineates all of them (and not all of them are what you might think). Plus you are expected to play in character (just in case you weren't going too) as well. Makes it hard if you are playing a Cleric of an Evil God on the surface, but that is the way it should be.

    Well, canonly (at least my head-canon) Val'myr is a chaotic neutral Drow Cleric/Mage of Velsharoon. He despises other Drow because Lolth is lame for not allowing male Clerics. I usually make Val a Mystic Theurge or True Necromancer prestige class when I play 3.5/Pathfinder.

    As Velsharoon is very far away from becoming a deity I think a Chaotic Neutral Cleric of Kiaransalee could work since the mystic theurge is non-existant. I know it's a sub-optimal combination but then again in PnP I play Mystic Theurges and they are super "meh."

    I plan to hardcore RP since that was my intended goal and such.

    As for my other character that will probably be easier to do, Piro. She's a gnome fey-themed character so I may either go gnome sorcerer with the fey heritage line or maybe a druid because of nature magic. Again, probably sub-optimal choices but it's all for the sake of RP.

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2015
    @Vallmyr Mystic Theurge exists on the Sigil server and you can pretty much go wild with pretty much any concept. It's Planescape, there is no normal.

    I would strongly recommened a Dwarven Cleric or Gnome Druid for the surface.
    Keep in mind that you need to follow the full oaths of Druids. No metal armor, not teaching Druidic etc.

    I am not sure if the Fey Heritage feat line has been improved, but it's worth it just for the Damage Reduction scaling from the feats alone.
    If you get them all, it's like having a permanent Stoneskin on you.

    Make sure you get 12 or 14 INT for the extra languages.
    WIth a Gnome Druid, you could have Common, Gnome, Animal, Druidic, Sylvan and maybe Elven as your languages. Pretty useful for RP.

    Have about 12 STR because you won't be in animal form forever and you still need to carry armor on you.
    And whatever you do, max Listen and Spot. Druids are the class that can do everything and are the best scouts in the game.
    An Elven Druid is a HiPSer detecting machine.

    Don't forget there's the Warlock inside too. And you can RP it as having a Fey Heritage.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    @Vallmyr - my comments about 'Role play' was not intended to question your commitments to such, merely to give you a heads up that some people on that server tend to exaggerate things to the nth degree. When I was playing, I saw quite a LOT used as extremely loose excuses to PvP. I guess you will always get that sort, but some of the reasons why were so flimsy as to be non-existent. If you go in there giving them a reason, you can bet that will lead to all manner of encounters.

    Some reasons that I saw included:

    1. Walking around while being of 'Evil race' lineage
    2. Casting 'False Life' as a protection spell
    3. Wearing a cloak that was black and had a red spider on it
    4. Not supporting someone who was picking a fight with someone of 'Evil Race' lineage
    5. Wearing red robes
    6. Walking around in full armor, looking 'Bulked up', because Half Orcs look that way.

    And that's just off the top of my head.

    My necromancer managed to make it to 20th level by keeping things nefarious and underhanded, but under the surface. You CAN have loads of fun playing less salubrious alignments but you should be circumspect about it. Don't show your teeth unless you are ready to use them is what I am trying to say.

    Vallmyr
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    edited June 2015
    The possibilities for character creation is limitless! Today I think I'll just make a character and stick with it. Once I get a feel for how the server works then I'll go and make any tweaks for a new character if I need to XD

    This looks like it will be a ton of fun. As with Pool of Radiance, @the_spyder , you have very good taste in things.

    Edit: Oops, also meant to say thanks for the advice and stuff

    FinneousPJthe_spyder
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    So glad you are enjoying. I still have a soft spot for that particular Persistent world. There's loads of fun to be had. Report back when you get a chance to let us all know how it is going.

    And thanks for the compliment.

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2015

    When I was playing, I saw quite a LOT used as extremely loose excuses to PvP.

    1. Walking around while being of 'Evil race' lineage
    2. Casting 'False Life' as a protection spell
    3. Wearing a cloak that was black and had a red spider on it
    4. Not supporting someone who was picking a fight with someone of 'Evil Race' lineage
    5. Wearing red robes
    6. Walking around in full armor, looking 'Bulked up', because Half Orcs look that way.

    1. I can understand this one. If you're a Gray Orc or Drow, you're usually kill on sight. Not really for Half-Drow or Half-Orcs though. It is lore accurate.

    2. Absolutely stupid. It's a necromancy spell but it doesn't have the Evil descriptor. Death Ward is also a Necromancy spell. Though I can see it with Living Undead since it physically changes you into something undead-like, hence the Charisma penalty.

    3. I can understand that as well. It's a symbol of Lolth and there are worshippers of Lolth in the surface.

    4. Stupid. Staying neutral should not be grounds for PvP and it's stupid. It might create bad blood but not PvP.

    5. Amazingly stupid. Elminster himself wears red robes.

    6. Kind of metagaming since there might be very well humans wearing bulky armor. The official image of the Doomguide PrC is like that.

    Though really, many people are looking for PvP just to test their uberbuild and feel better about their e-peen.

    By the way, my responses above are meant to be used as answers if someone tried to PvP for those reasons.

    "-You wear red robes! You are a Thayan Red Wizard!
    -...Elminster himself wears red robes, dumbass."

    Vallmyr
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Archaos said:


    Though really, many people are looking for PvP just to test their uberbuild and feel better about their e-peen.

    I think this was the lion's share if the 'Actual' reasons.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    Also, @Archaos , I really like that idea for a Fey Warlock. I know it's canon in 5e but can warlocks in 3.5e have a Fey as their patron or is it only devils/demons or whatever?

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419


    I think this was the lion's share if the 'Actual' reasons.

    I don't mind PvP. But I know the game is not balanced for it. If I do it, I would do it for actual IC reasons but I try to avoid it.

    Co-op party > PvP anyday.

    the_spyder
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    Vallmyr said:

    Also, @Archaos , I really like that idea for a Fey Warlock. I know it's canon in 5e but can warlocks in 3.5e have a Fey as their patron or is it only devils/demons or whatever?

    Yup, even in 3.5E Warlocks can have fiendish, fey or pacted with something else. There were a couple official articles explaining the sources for Warlocks.
    The pacts became clear and official in 4E.

    In 3.5E, you can still RP it as getting those powers from your heritage instead of pacts but it depends on the server.

    A Warlock with Fey Heritage feats is a pretty classic archetype on PWs, actually.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    Welp, my first serious character shall be a warlock then. Thanks!

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Archaos said:


    I don't mind PvP. But I know the game is not balanced for it. If I do it, I would do it for actual IC reasons but I try to avoid it.

    Co-op party > PvP anyday.

    100% agree.

    I've never been a 'Great player' and I certainly don't 'Build' optimized characters (which is to say I usually have an idea and figure out how it is done, but they aren't anything other than making sure that I have what I want and are by no means Uber in any description).

    I've done the occasional PvP, usually initiated by the other guy (see my list above as just a sample). And I get that the ability to disagree violently is part of the game. I'd just WAY prefer co-op.

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