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I need help overcoming my aversion to Lawful alignments.

VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
edited July 2015 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Hello! In an upcoming PnP game I'm going to be playing a LN Doomguide of Kelemvor. My only issue is I normally hate being a lawful alignment due to feelings of being tied down and restricted. How do I get over this feeling?

Edit: Derp, not PnP. I mean Multiplayer BG game. >_>

Comments

  • Brer_RabbitBrer_Rabbit Member Posts: 159
    Focus on your character's personality-- is he all "adhere to the law or ELSE" or just kinda shrugs and goes "not really my problem"? I find that acting as an antisocial jerk (as roleplay, not to other players)brings a great deal of joy to my gaming. :)
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Yeeeeesss Doomguides are awesome. :3

    Now, if I were you, I'd try and put yourself in the shoes of the character. Why are they lawful? They certainly didn't just get up one day and say "I'm gonna follow the rules." No. There's something in their fundamental belief structure that makes them devout adherents of some set of rules. A Doomguide is likely to believe strongly in the natural order of things. Strength, according to the Doomguide, comes out of accepting what is, rather than trying to pervert the world into something it's not. That doesn't mean they're necessarily super rigid in every way. A Doomguide is rather unlikely to have much respect for mortal authority, which will all be dust in due time, but they'll fight tooth and nail to preserve the natural order as they see it.

    Do you watch anime, Vallmyr? Because if you do, I highly recommend Fate/Zero as an exploration of what it can mean to be lawful. It's by no means comprehensive, but it does pretty clearly illustrate that lawfulness is a choice you make. It doesn't exactly restrict you, in the typical sense. There are simply things you will not choose to do. That's what makes you lawful.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Jarrakul said:

    Yeeeeesss Doomguides are awesome. :3

    Now, if I were you, I'd try and put yourself in the shoes of the character. Why are they lawful? They certainly didn't just get up one day and say "I'm gonna follow the rules." No. There's something in their fundamental belief structure that makes them devout adherents of some set of rules. A Doomguide is likely to believe strongly in the natural order of things. Strength, according to the Doomguide, comes out of accepting what is, rather than trying to pervert the world into something it's not. That doesn't mean they're necessarily super rigid in every way. A Doomguide is rather unlikely to have much respect for mortal authority, which will all be dust in due time, but they'll fight tooth and nail to preserve the natural order as they see it.

    Do you watch anime, Vallmyr? Because if you do, I highly recommend Fate/Zero as an exploration of what it can mean to be lawful. It's by no means comprehensive, but it does pretty clearly illustrate that lawfulness is a choice you make. It doesn't exactly restrict you, in the typical sense. There are simply things you will not choose to do. That's what makes you lawful.

    I actually just watched Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Zero, and am currently watching the Unlimited Bladeworks series XD

    I don't watch a lot of anime but this series is SUPER HYPE. Saber is the BEST Paladin!

    Anyway, hm. . . I suppose an angle my character could make this following Kelemvor's specific code of conduct and philosophy while being apathetic towards other laws and such.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,584
    Brer_Rabbit said:

    Focus on your character's personality-- is he all "adhere to the law or ELSE" or just kinda shrugs and goes "not really my problem"? I find that acting as an antisocial jerk (as roleplay, not to other players)brings a great deal of joy to my gaming. :)

    Ah, the "Xan approach"...
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    edited July 2015
    The 'out' that will let you disobey the occasional human law is your belief in natural law. Ultimately, you answer to a higher power and what are the corrupt laws of Amn when compared the Kelemvor's divine guidance? You could actually make LN revolutionary -- a zealot -- who seeks to overthrow false laws and institute natural law.

    Or you could take a somber approach --

    Kelemvor -- like the black hound of halfling pantheon -- is what must be. He didn't want the job but taking it was the only way to keep it from falling into the hands of someone who would abuse it. So you approach life with the same spirit -- you follow the the law because that is what must be done, the alternative is worse. So you deal with the shadow thieves because the alternative is worse.

    Do you like any opinion on Raven from the Teen Titans -- cartoon or comic? She would make a good cleric of Kelemvor -- full of feeling but never able to express it.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Raven from the old Teen Titans cartoon was great! I prefer Starfire's derpy, whimsical nature but I thought Raven was definitely the coolest member of the team.

    Hm. . . gives me an idea.

    Maybe the character could be raised from birth to be a Cleric of Kelemvor and is lawful out of duty to his family and constantly holds back their emotions which can lead to outbursts every now and then. Taking the sacrifice for the rest of humanity! I'm starting to like the idea for this character. I imagine this Doomguide (Haven't gotten a name yet since I just thought of the char) would be very envious of chaotic characters but also realize he can't do as such due to his job.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I like that. That has meat, and it feels very much in the "accept what must be" spirit of the Doomguides.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    It's worth remembering that alignments are not a straightjacket, more a general descriptor. Not every character has had a sit-down with the Player's Handbook and worked out exactly where they fit - most people have some contradictory thoughts and blind spots. Also, Lawful does not necessarily equate to obeying all laws, and a could be adherence to a personal code as much as to the "Laws of the Land".

    As an example, you could have a fairly flexible, straightforward Lawful Neutral mercenary with the following ideals:
    1) If I'm doing a job, I need to get paid for it. No freebies unless I owe the person.
    2) If I agree to take a quest or mission, I will complete it unless there's a very good reason not to.
    3) No harm to unarmed civilians or kids.
    4) No taking pleasure in killing, it's a job, nothing more.
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Vallmyr said:

    Raven from the old Teen Titans cartoon was great! I prefer Starfire's derpy, whimsical nature but I thought Raven was definitely the coolest member of the team.

    Hm. . . gives me an idea.

    Maybe the character could be raised from birth to be a Cleric of Kelemvor and is lawful out of duty to his family and constantly holds back their emotions which can lead to outbursts every now and then. Taking the sacrifice for the rest of humanity! I'm starting to like the idea for this character. I imagine this Doomguide (Haven't gotten a name yet since I just thought of the char) would be very envious of chaotic characters but also realize he can't do as such due to his job.

    Sounds great! And if your cleric is also a bhaalspawn then Raven and charname have the same daddy issues. Raven is one of the best characters that DC comics made . . .

    Derps unite!
  • Brer_RabbitBrer_Rabbit Member Posts: 159
    killerrabbit said:

    Vallmyr said:

    Raven from the old Teen Titans cartoon was great! I prefer Starfire's derpy, whimsical nature but I thought Raven was definitely the coolest member of the team.

    Hm. . . gives me an idea.

    Maybe the character could be raised from birth to be a Cleric of Kelemvor and is lawful out of duty to his family and constantly holds back their emotions which can lead to outbursts every now and then. Taking the sacrifice for the rest of humanity! I'm starting to like the idea for this character. I imagine this Doomguide (Haven't gotten a name yet since I just thought of the char) would be very envious of chaotic characters but also realize he can't do as such due to his job.

    Sounds great! And if your cleric is also a bhaalspawn then Raven and charname have the same daddy issues. Raven is one of the best characters that DC comics made . . .

    Derps unite!
    I do love me some Raven. :) AZARTH MITHRION ZINTHOS!!!

    I suppose a good Lawful Good Marvel character would be Storm-- She adheres to the laws for the sake of everyone, but that doesn't mean she's not conflicted about it at times-- if you want no conflict and occassional "I'm a saint" assholery, see Cyclops. Hey @Amber_Scott , would Kitty Pride be Neutral Good or leaning more to Chaotic Good? I think of Chaotic Good as being Iron Man of the Avengers movies or Wolverine in general, but I have a hard time imagining Kitty as a hard-ass guardian of goodness like Storm probably could, lol...


    /nerd wars, BEGIN!
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    Biggest example of LG is usually Captain America
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    Dragonspear said:

    Biggest example of LG is usually Captain America

    I actually see Captain America as NG, the way he goes against his orders to save his comrades on the First Avenger. He does what he sees is good, and doesn't adhere to any laws or code while going at it. Thor seems more Lawful Good to me. He fights for Asgard first and foremost, even if it makes him a douchebag on Midgard (Earth) every now and then.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    the_spyder said:

    I'm going to take things in a different direction. Don't think of Lawful as "obeys the law". Think instead of someone that supports ORDER over anarchy. A lawful person can disobey laws with impunity so long as it is done in the service of ORDER. A Chaotic person might very well obey every single law and even use laws as a shield if they can sew anarchy into the mix.

    This is 100% my take on the lawful-chaotic spectrum as well


    So you guys know, I made a thread dedicated to discussing the axes in terms of how they relate to popular fictional characters so we can freely discuss these awesome things without derailing other threads
    Join in here: http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42424/alignment-wars-thread-placing-all-our-favorite-fictional-characters-into-little-boxes
  • Brer_RabbitBrer_Rabbit Member Posts: 159
    Party pooper! :p You're right, I'm going quietly...
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    So one thing I thought I might have had an issue with it turns out I don't at all. One of the people in the party is going to be a CN thief. I was like OH NO LAWFUL AND CHAOTIC IN SAME PARTY. But thanks to you guys I realized my doomguide can just not care about town's laws. If the Chaotic character somehow disrupts the life and death cycle he might have an issue but the thief is just stealing stuff? Eh, whatever then. Doesn't interfere with Kelemvor's teachings.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unNSx7ilS4k
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    Dragonspear said:

    Biggest example of LG is usually Captain America

    And Superman, and Shazam.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    And Batman.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @ShapiroKeatsDarkMage , I watched maybe half of Counter Monkey's video. I think the guy's heart is in the right place, but he kind of rambles and rants on for 25 minutes. Not that he doesn't make good points - he does - but he's all over the place in his thinking, and he goes on for far too long. Maybe he just wants to vent, but if he wants to convince anyone or change any minds, he probably needs a bit more organized and concise presentation.

    He has an awesome D&D collection behind him. That's kind of cool.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    BelgarathMTH said:

    @ShapiroKeatsDarkMage , I watched maybe half of Counter Monkey's video. I think the guy's heart is in the right place, but he kind of rambles and rants on for 25 minutes. Not that he doesn't make good points - he does - but he's all over the place in his thinking, and he goes on for far too long. Maybe he just wants to vent, but if he wants to convince anyone or change any minds, he probably needs a bit more organized and concise presentation.

    He has an awesome D&D collection behind him. That's kind of cool.

    Watch his Ultima retrospective. Its his best work.

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