Skip to content

BG:EE Spells question

chickenhedchickenhed Member Posts: 208
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Hello all,

I've owned BG:EE since release but I have barely played it. The reason being is spell balance. I always played Vanilla BG1 over TuTu because I did not like that I (and thus my spellcasting team members) had access to BG2 priest and mage spells and my opponents did not. That alone, for me, was a big enough to not get fully immersed in it and stick to vanilla.

Has this been "fixed" in BG:EE? As in, do the mages and clerics/druids cast BG2 spells in BG:EE like my PC or NPCs can?

If not, are there any mods that either change BG:EE AI so that they DO cast BG2 spells? Or perhaps a mod that restricts me and NPCs to only have access to BG1 vanilla spells in BG:EE?

Thanks for the input.

Comments

  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 300
    Well the SCS mod will have mages and clerics using a wider variety of spells even with a fairly basic install. Stoneskin being the obvious example there I think.

    As for vanilla EE behavior, someone else may be able to answer that. I haven't played vanilla yet. You could always restrict yourself in any case. It would be a shame to miss out on a far superior game now, especially with the expansion coming soon, over something that doesn't really have that much impact really.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I'm struggling to remember which spells were or weren't available in original BG1.

    Certainly, however, BG1ee enemies have potential access to the same spells as your own party, plus at least one more than your own party. Which spells your opponents have actually learned/memorised is a decision for the devs. It'd be a very long job to check the game files exhaustively to find out what the devs selected for every enemy, and I still wouldn't be sure which ones were or weren't available in original BG1.

    In a spirit of helpfulness, I've had a look at Davaeorn, one of the important mid-game enemy mages. In BG1ee, he has memorised Magic Missile (x5), Mirror Image (x5), Fireball (x2), Flame Arrow (x2), Hold Person (x2), Dimension Door (x2), and Cone of Cold (x3). Of these, Dimension Door is not available to the player's party in BG1ee, or even BG2ee (even though, IIRC, it was available to the player in original BG1). And Cone of Cold ... hmm, certainly that's available to the party in BG2/BG2ee, but ... erm ... I think that's a BG2ee spell being used by this enemy which is not available to the party in BG1ee.

    So on the (admittedly limited) evidence I've checked, BG1ee enemies can even cast BG2 spells which your party can't find until BG2ee. So it looks to me as if they've not merely fixed the problem to which you object, but actually gone further and given a slight advantage to the enemy spell lists!
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    So, for clarification of what spells we're talking about, I think I found a guide that shows us, at least for mages. I don't actually see this explained anywhere, but as far as I can tell, spells in black text are BG1, spells yellow text are TotSC, spells in green text are BG2, and spells in blue text are TOB.

    http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/magic1.htm

    Looking at the list, the BG2 spells that are both good and not in originally in BG1+TotSC are something like the following (give or take a few depending on personal preference):
    Spook
    Glitterdust
    Melf's Minute Meteors
    Remove Magic
    Fireshield (both versions)
    Minor Sequencer
    Breach
    Cone of Cold
    Protection from Normal Weapons
    Spell Immunity
    Spell Shield
    Sunfire

    Now, other than Gallowglass's Cone of Cold example, I can't think of anyone in BG1 who uses any of these spells. In fairness, I can't think of many mages in BG2 who use most of these. I'm also not sure whether there are any scrolls of some of these in BG1EE. I know I've found scrolls of Spook, Glitterdust, Melf's, and Remove Magic, but I'm not sure about the others.

    Note that the guide is wrong about Stoneskin, which was introduced in TotSC. It's just that there's only one scroll of it.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2015
    On the divine side its almost exclusively limited to level 3 or greater spells.

    Armor of Faith
    Holy Smite
    Summon Insects
    Unholy Blight
    Zone of Sweet Air
    Call Woodland Beings
    Cloak of Fear
    Death Ward
    Holy Power
    Lessor Restoration
    Negative Plane Protection
    Poison
    Cause Critical Wounds
    Insect Plague
    Iron Skins
    Magic Resistance
    Mass Cure
    Pixie Dust
    True Seeing

    These spells are probably not mentioned in any of the scripts in game either. So enemies aren't going to use them.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Checking a few further examples, I note that Semaj knows Remove Magic, which is one of those listed as a BG2 addition by @Jarrakul above. However, although he knows it, he doesn't appear to have it currently memorised when you meet him. On the other hand, 2 out of 3 versions of Angelo not only know Remove Magic but have it memorised, although I'm not sure which version of him is the one you meet in the Final Battle.

    I can't find any enemy using Spook, Glitterdust, or Melf's Minute Meteors, which are available to the party (although 1 copy only of MMM).

    Fireshield (Red) is used by Ekandor, as well as being available (1 copy only) to the party. Fireshield (Blue) is similarly available (again 1 copy only) to the party, but I don't know of any enemy who has it.

    There's a single scroll of Minor Spell Sequencer available to the party, but again I know of no enemy who has it.

    Of the level 5 spells listed by @Jarrakul, I've already mentioned that Cone of Cold is used by Davaeorn but not available to the party, and I now notice that Ekandor and Andris also have Cone of Cold. On the other hand, Sunfire can be obtained by the party in BG1ee (although only one scroll, I think), and I'm not aware of any enemy who has it. Breach, Protection from Normal Weapons, Spell Immunity and Spell Shield do not appear to be available either to the party or to the enemies.

    An additional level 5 spell which I now see some enemies (e.g. Vay-ya, Yago, Dezkiel) have memorised is Shadow Door, which I believe is another spell not available to the party.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Worth mentioning that you can install SCS on iOS to have enemy casters be a much greater threat using all of the above spells among other improvements.

  • chickenhedchickenhed Member Posts: 208
    First of all, thank you all for doing all of this research! Very helpful!

    @Elminister , when you say "These spells are probably not mentioned in any of the scripts in game either. So enemies aren't going to use them." That was exactly my point. I want enemies to use them. Since I can, and so can my npc party members. I don't like the unfair advantage.

    @Gallowglass thank you for your detailed analysis of arcane spells! I would surmise, then, that BG2 arcane spells are fairly "balanced" in how they are delineated between myself, npcs, and enemies. That is exactly what I was hoping for.

    The question remains, I suppose, about divine spells. Does anyone know if enemies get the innate divine spells that npcs and charname would get access to? Doom, for example, is an excellent BG2-only spell that I would feel "guilty" about using in BG:EE if enemies don't have access to it.

    The best resource I have found for a quick listing of what spell is in what version of the game is Dudleyville (http://www.forgottenwars.com/oogi/priest_1.htm).
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    chickenhed said:

    I would surmise, then, that BG2 arcane spells are fairly "balanced" in how they are delineated between myself, npcs, and enemies. That is exactly what I was hoping for.

    I reckon so, yes.

    However, bear in mind that you're smarter than the enemy AI. Even though the enemy does appear to have a fair selection of spells, he isn't always very good at knowing what to use in any particular situation, so he might not take full advantage of what he has. Although I reckon the AI is a little better than it used to be.
    chickenhed said:

    The question remains, I suppose, about divine spells. Does anyone know if enemies get the innate divine spells that npcs and charname would get access to? Doom, for example, is an excellent BG2-only spell that I would feel "guilty" about using in BG:EE if enemies don't have access to it.

    Off the top of my head, I don't know. And, meaning no offence, I've done all the research I feel like doing right now, so it's somebody else's turn to do the research work on divine casting.
  • chickenhedchickenhed Member Posts: 208
    Gallowglass said:

    And, meaning no offence, I've done all the research I feel like doing right now, so it's somebody else's turn to do the research work on divine casting.

    Of course you are very much correct. Thank you again for the time you've taken and your input.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Cone of Cold first appeared in TOTSC I think. Davaeorn had it memorized he just never used it.
Sign In or Register to comment.

2025 Overhaul Games, a division of Beamdog. © 2025 Hasbro, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Baldur's Gate, Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Forgotten Realms, Baldur's Gate, Wizards of the Coast and their logos are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the U.S.A. and other countries, and are used with permission. Hasbro and its logo are trademarks of Hasbro, Inc. and are used with permission. © 1998 BioWare Corp. All Rights Reserved. BioWare, the BioWare Infinity Engine and the BioWare logo are trademarks of Bioware Corp. Black Isle Studios and the Black Isle Studios logo are trademarks of Interplay Entertainment Corp. Atari and the Atari logo are trademarks owned by Atari Interactive, Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.