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Dual classing???

So I was wondering about dual classing. If you take 5 levels of fighter then dual class to thief and gain another six levels of thief, do you keep running as a thief for the rest of the game?
JuliusBorisov

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  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Yes. This is why you need to be careful about dual classing not only in picking the level to dual class but picking the classes to dual class to and from. Like, dual classing AWAY from a spell casting class is a bad idea, but there are a lot of good choices to dual class from.

    Thief (especially Swashbuckler Kit) is an excellent class to dual class away from and the high level thief abilities are excellent so it's also a good class to dual class to if you're starting as a fighter or fighter kit.

    Most characters can benefit from some levels of fighter before moving to a spell caster or thief or whatever, the improved BAB, Hit Points, Weapon Proficiencies, and whatever kit bonuses are an excellent tradeoff for only getting like... mage 38 instead of mage 40.
    RAM021thelovebatJuliusBorisovSionIV
  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2015
    Classes like the Swashbuckler as mentioned or others which come with nice permanent bonuses at the early levels like a Kensai are great for dual classing. Choosing what class combination and what level to dual class at are very important for how to build your character, since once you dual class there's no going back and you don't gain experience equally like you would with multiclassing. Dual classing has plenty of advantages though if you know how to do it right, and you can do things pretty well dual classing in the single digit levels and gaining your previous class abilities back in the first game.

    For the powergaming mentality you would end up dual classing a bit later in the BG2EE levels, but it takes so long to build your character to it's true potential this way I wouldn't recommend it for someone still grasping how to effectively dual class a character. What dual classing is best for in the Enhanced Editions is starting off with a class kit then dual classing into something that doubles extremely well with the old class when you gain the class abilities back. Since kits generally have more disadvantages than its base class would and you can't dual class into a kit only from a kit, starting off as a certain kit is usually the preferred way to go unless you want to start off as a Ranger and dual class into a Cleric.

    Another advantage dual classing has over multiclassing is that you can't multiclass as a kit, only base classes (unless your race is a Gnome, in which case you default to an Illusionist as a Mage). So you can start off as a kit with dual classing your character later but you can't multiclass with that kit.

    Some dual class combos that have nice bonuses or go well are

    Ranger into Cleric

    Kensai into Mage

    Swashbuckler into Fighter

    Rangers dual classed allow your Cleric abilities later to have access to the Druid spellbook that they normally wouldn't get, as well as starting off with a whopping 6 proficiency points since you get two free points for dual weapon style. So you can pretty much dual wield some nice blunt weapons then buff yourself up with some nice Cleric spells to serve as a Cleric with decent fighting abilities. You would also get the bonuses of the Fighter strength table with an 18 Strength.

    Kensais into a Mage are deadly offensively, since spells of the Mage help make up for not being able to wear armor or defensive bracers (and Mages can't wear traditional armor anyway so you don't really lose anything). So you can buff yourself up with spells then get into the fight hacking and slashing away nicely since Kensai's possess the best melee combat abilities as far as offense goes. They also start off with that nice AC bonus of -2 which is permanent and goes well with defensive spells.

    Swashbucklers are one of those classes which I hear people talk about sometimes but haven't really played at all. Some say it's pretty legitimate to go with just a Swashbuckler through the entire series, but at some point you don't really need to pump up your thieving abilities anymore to get through certain hard parts of the games. You can't backstab so stealth isn't quite as useful anyway, pickpocketing can be used by a temporary NPC or boosted with items temporarily, detect illusion I've never found a use for that couldn't be done by someone else later in the game by the time it's useful, and you only need the most useful thieving abilities up to a certain amount to last you through most of the series which you can reach fairly early.

    Also since you can't backstab you won't benefit from getting the high backstab multipliers so being a really high level isn't needed unless you know what you're doing in how to utilize the attack and AC bonuses with your party setup. Going from a Swashbuckler into a Fighter though seems great to me because as a Fighter you won't really care about wanting to backstab so you won't miss that. You can put an extra point or two into dual wielding as a Swashbuckler so when you get your old class abilities back you'll be able to dual wield whatever weapons you put points into with your Fighter levels at that point. And probably the nicest bonus are getting some additional free bonuses to armor class and attack/damage which are great for a Fighter and you wouldn't ever get that from multiclassing. Also when in doubt and unsure of which class to go with, you can't go wrong with a Fighter so you basically get to be a Fighter with a few nice bonuses of the Swashbuckler added in while the disadvantages of the Swashbuckler are basically nonexistent cus you're a Fighter.
    Post edited by thelovebat on
    FinneousPJRAM021JuliusBorisov
  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2015
    CaptRory said:

    Thief (especially Swashbuckler Kit) is an excellent class to dual class away from and the high level thief abilities are excellent so it's also a good class to dual class to if you're starting as a fighter or fighter kit.

    Edit: I realized you were mainly talking about thieving abilities in general and not just the Swashbuckler. I guess I kinda overlooked high thieving abilities in general. Just wanted to clarify for the OP that you can't dual class into a kit.

    While I agree that the Swashbuckler seems quite appealing for dual classing, you can't dual class into a kit unless you mod your game in some way. In the original Baldur's Gate you could dual class into a specialist Mage if you wanted, but in the Enhanced Edition you can't dual class into kits or specialist Mages, you can only dual class from them. Which means that multiclassing with a Gnome keeps a unique advantage over other classes as far as spellcasting goes, since I don't think you'd ever start as a specialist Mage then dual class into something else (unless you're going for some combo of Mage and Cleric which most people wouldn't ever recommend doing, since you'd miss out on high end spells with one or the other).
    Post edited by thelovebat on
  • JatrrrJatrrr Member Posts: 31
    I have some little idea in my mind.
    It is called Fighter dualed to Druid (maybe on lvl 9, preferably on 13)

    1) Does anybody have any experinece with this combination? I seldom see this on forum, so I think it is useless in some way - maybe completaly :). That is why I am so attracted to this idea :) - as a challenge. It can touch GM - preferably scimitars (Belm in off hand probably) or serve as a tank (maybe ?).
    Problem is to have a chance to spend 8 points to weapons u need obviously lvl 13 (+dat APR bonus).
    5* Gm + 3* 2dual-w.

    2) And here come the kick of the reality to my head ( right Boo - squeeeeeek ).
    I simply can not export anything from BG1+ToSC (dont kill me instantly for playing just pure old game, with no EE mods or smtg.) into BG2.
    Originally there was a cap of 89,000 exp for anything cnverted from BG1. Than I added remove cap to BG2 from tweak, and those conversion cap changed for 161.000 for imported char , wheater or not my CHAR in BG1 hit more exp.
    (BG1 - remove cap from tweak, but not the same version as used for BG2)

    Is this fixed limitation or is my game instalation hating me?
    I know i can modify CHAR after conversion with some kind of KEEPER clone, but it sound like a cheating to me. I can continue lvling in BG 2, but I just wanna play 1 until all quests done, bossed killed Durlags tower clean as ... as ... something very clean.

    ...and nothing biggger than Boo running around in forests, playing silly games with half-mad Berserker-Ranger. (...right Boo - squeeeeeeek :) )


  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    @Jatrrr
    1) It ain't useless at all . In fact, considering that you only need 160000 xp to reach level 10 as a druid, you could dual class a level 9 fighter really quick in SoA. The only downside of it is the fact that you need very good stats to do the change (15 strength , 17 wisdom and charisma).
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    Jatrrr said:

    I have some little idea in my mind.
    It is called Fighter dualed to Druid (maybe on lvl 9, preferably on 13)

    I never dual classed much, but I heard that to dual class to druid you also need a high Charisma as well as Wisdom.

    Also when you dual from fighters, you can continue increasing weapon proficiency, so you don't need to have them all before. Not sure if you can go up to GM, so I suggest you get GM first then increase dual wield.

  • JatrrrJatrrr Member Posts: 31
    Ah I see.
    I found that 89,000 limit is for exporting and starting in mutiplayer and 161.000 is for using Char in singleplayer. Also I think these limitations to start BG2 after converting from BG1 are FIXED... damm it. :)
    Soooo... I will probably use Keeper to regein lvls and exp from (cap-removed) BG1 game.

    Yap... high stats needed to dual in to Druid from Fighter. I spend few hours ...yes hours... to roll 93 fighter, it is not really easy without autoroller or smtg. And few more hours thinking and reading posts everywhere about dualing. I play BG1 because I really like the story, companions and especially +8 from tomes permanent bonus. I still can easilly get a good roll in Bg2 and start from there, but I like the 1st option.

    I have: Str-18(99), Dex_18, Con_18, Int_8, Wis-15(+3 from tomes), Cha-16
    If tomes used: Str-19, Dex-19, Con-19, Int-9, Wis-18, Cha-17

    Getting to lvl 13 is maybe a crazy idea, becasue it is 1,350,000 exp.... with is really huge amount :/-for BG1

    Also I find a chance, because BG2 will not decrease ur level after u dual into new profession, so if you touch what lvl u want - jump into new one and no more decreasing exp.
    That is why I wana try Fighter lvl 13 (for almost full bonuses from class) and dual it into druid.
    GMastey is my main goal+another 3 * for dual wielding.
    Than start BG2 with lvl 1 Druid waiting for lvl 14 to start doing something. hehe.. :)
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @thelovebat, the biggest advantage of remaining a Swashbuckler rather than dualing into Fighter is Thief HLAs.
    Use Any Item removes item restrictions, giving the Swashie even wider access to items than a Thief/Fighter. For example, UAI enables casting from scrolls or using the Staff of the Magi, Scarlett Ninja-To and other class/kit-restricted items. HLA traps are great. And the Swashbuckler gets Whirlwind which, taking into account Swashies' Thac0 and damage bonuses, is about as good as one of the best Fighter HLAs (GWW).
    Another advantage is that the continuous AC improvement makes them one of few classes/kits (if not the only one) that can reliably win fights in ToB with an AC-based approach (rather than having to rely on damage resistance or magic, although those avenues are open to Swashbucklers as complementary tactics as well).

    The only disadvantages I see for plain Swashbucklers are fewer weapon proficiencies and fewer HPs.
    JuliusBorisov
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