Cleric/Ranger vs. Fighter/Druid

miker60

I'm rolling up a new party for a play through. Can anyone help me understand the pros and cons of Cleric/Ranger vs. a Fighter/Druid?

FinneousPJ

C/R
Full cleric spellcasting
3rd level druid spellcasting
Free TWF pips

F/D
Full druid spellcasting
No cleric spells

Neither gets grand mastery. Overall, it's a choice between high level cleric or druid spells. If you change the ini file, your C/R can get full druid spellcasting, making it the obviously better build.

dockaboomski

Seconding @FinneousPJ, Cleric/Ranger is better if you edit the game files, but without doing so I'd say Fighter/Druid is better, because of how most of the druid spells are more offensive than cleric ones.

miker60

Thanks that's helped me greatly to understand the spell casting ramifications for the choices.
Just a couple more questions about the warrior side of the equation:
I'm assuming the class weapons are limited to cleric weapons for C/R and Druid for F/D?
C/R get racial enemy and stealth as a ranger? (Assuming yes)

What do F/D get on the fighter side? Can they master weapons further along or do they get more mastery points to spend overall, thereby having a wider array of weapons they are good with?

dockaboomski

1. Yes. Fighter/Druids can only specialize in druid weapons; Cleric/Rangers in cleric weapons.
2. Cleric/Rangers do get a racial enemy, stealth, and the two free slots in two-weapon fighting.
3. Fighter/Druids can specialize in weapons and get proficiency slots as fighters, so more often than a druid would.

miker60

Who gets more proficiency slots over time the C/R or F/D?

FinneousPJ

Both get the same progression of pips. However, the ranger levels up a bit slower.

Vakarian

@FinneousPJ In IWD:EE, don't rangers eventually get access to druid spells up to 6th level without editing the ini file? (although it will take a very long time before a ranger will gain access to those spells)

@miker60 C/R and F/D eventually get the same number of proficiency slots, but the F/D will get them slightly faster.

I agree that the choice comes down to whether you want the high level cleric or druid spells. Ranger gives a bit more benefit than fighter (for the multiclasses - it's a different story for dual classing), but not so much that it should greatly affect your choice.

billbisco

Cleric Ranger is better. Animate Dead, Draw Upon Holy Might and the Cleric repitoire are better than the druid spells. Having level 3 druid spells too is icing on thr cake. Multiclass weapon specualization is the same for fighters and rangers and rangers get a favored enemy, so Cleric/ Ranger still comes out on top.

FinneousPJ

@Vakarian You might be right. I am not that familiar with IWD rangers. However, I don't think that's a consideration in a normal game without HoF bonuses.

Vakarian

@FinneousPJ - 4th level Druid spells should be obtainable for a ranger in a normal playthrough (15th lvl), but you're probably right about the higher spell levels (looks like they don't get 5th level spells until 22nd level and 6th level spells until 29th)

miker60

Thanks for the help and insight everyone.

FinneousPJ

@Vanarian Nah, I don't think a multiclass ranger will hit level 15 without xp bonuses.

Nifft

Cleric / Ranger used to be a brokenly good multi-class.

Then EE came along and fixed the broken.

Now I'd suggest just going for Fighter / Druid unless you already have a Druid but no Cleric.

SharGuidesMyHand

billbisco said:

Cleric Ranger is better. Animate Dead, Draw Upon Holy Might and the Cleric repitoire are better than the druid spells. Having level 3 druid spells too is icing on thr cake. Multiclass weapon specualization is the same for fighters and rangers and rangers get a favored enemy, so Cleric/ Ranger still comes out on top.

Agreed, the cleric/ranger simply has more upsides than a fighter/druid IMO. I would also argue that a cleric/ranger has a better selection of weapons to choose from.

RAM021

Nifft said:

Cleric / Ranger used to be a brokenly good multi-class.

Then EE came along and fixed the broken.

Now I'd suggest just going for Fighter / Druid unless you already have a Druid but no Cleric.

It was never be definition broken as both the BG R/C and IWD R/C were WAI, albeit differently.

While BG2ee recently nerfed their R/C, and presumably so to will BG1ee, IWD R/C still functions as it always has.

That said, it is indeed well worth having a Druid along...

Lord_Tansheron

Is there a specific reason you want a F/D multi? If you dual a fighter into druid, you will have Grand Mastery and also a better spell progression, at very little cost.

Dualing R/C of course makes little sense as Rangers can't get GM either way.

Grum

Fighter/druid gets ironskins, which is pretty nice for tanking.

Wowo

Grum said:

Fighter/druid gets ironskins, which is pretty nice for tanking.

Kensei 9 -> Druid is ridiculously good compared to a multi Fighter/Druid though.

Even a Berserker 7-> Druid is miles ahead of the multi.

abacus

Wowo said:

Grum said:

Fighter/druid gets ironskins, which is pretty nice for tanking.

Kensei 9 -> Druid is ridiculously good compared to a multi Fighter/Druid though.

Even a Berserker 7-> Druid is miles ahead of the multi.

Does the Kensai>Druid not suffer with the lack of armour? Not having the same range of protection spells as a Mage, I mean... Seem to me like you'd need a lot of castings of ironskins?

I've never tried it, so not certain either way....

Belanos

FinneousPJ said:

Neither gets grand mastery.

That's only true if you select multi-class. A dual class character can achieve Grandmastery.

Wowo

abacus said:

Wowo said:

Grum said:

Fighter/druid gets ironskins, which is pretty nice for tanking.

Kensei 9 -> Druid is ridiculously good compared to a multi Fighter/Druid though.

Even a Berserker 7-> Druid is miles ahead of the multi.

Does the Kensai>Druid not suffer with the lack of armour? Not having the same range of protection spells as a Mage, I mean... Seem to me like you'd need a lot of castings of ironskins?

I've never tried it, so not certain either way....

Barkskin takes care of base AC and is eventually one of the best sources of AC in the game. Between the kensei bonus, barkskin and entropic shield you'll only be hit on natural 20s, which is what the ironskins are for.

For enemies that can hurt you there is beetle and later water elemental form which when combined with shield of faith give amazing physical damage reduction.

The only thing that I don't like about a kendru is that there is no ranged option, unlike a kencler (who has spiritual hammer) or a kenmage (who has Melfs Minute Meteors and Mordenkainens Sword). However you have plenty of spells to use in situations when ranged weapons are useful so it's no big deal.

abacus

Wowo said:

abacus said:

Wowo said:

Grum said:

Fighter/druid gets ironskins, which is pretty nice for tanking.

Kensei 9 -> Druid is ridiculously good compared to a multi Fighter/Druid though.

Even a Berserker 7-> Druid is miles ahead of the multi.

Does the Kensai>Druid not suffer with the lack of armour? Not having the same range of protection spells as a Mage, I mean... Seem to me like you'd need a lot of castings of ironskins?

I've never tried it, so not certain either way....

Barkskin takes care of base AC and is eventually one of the best sources of AC in the game. Between the kensei bonus, barkskin and entropic shield you'll only be hit on natural 20s, which is what the ironskins are for.

For enemies that can hurt you there is beetle and later water elemental form which when combined with shield of faith give amazing physical damage reduction.

The only thing that I don't like about a kendru is that there is no ranged option, unlike a kencler (who has spiritual hammer) or a kenmage (who has Melfs Minute Meteors and Mordenkainens Sword). However you have plenty of spells to use in situations when ranged weapons are useful so it's no big deal.

Thanks.
I'd always dismissed Barkskin as my druids usually have armour that is better... but in this instance, I can see how it'd have utility. I'd also forgotten that they have access to Armour of Faith, which is a terrific spell.

Jatrrr

dockaboomski said:

1. Yes. Fighter/Druids can only specialize in druid weapons; Cleric/Rangers in cleric weapons.
2. Cleric/Rangers do get a racial enemy, stealth, and the two free slots in two-weapon fighting.
3. Fighter/Druids can specialize in weapons and get proficiency slots as fighters, so more often than a druid would.

I think number 3. is wrong, as I tried a roll a new F/D few days ago, and it offers only druid weapons while created (BG2/ToB/-no mods). Which is not so bad as it seems. You can still use scimitars/clubs which is not such a tragedy and u can still shoot with slings, darts and there is some good returning +3 dagger i heard.

2. I am almost sure u can make Stalker/Cleric dual, wchich can be a really funny think. U can touch 3xbackstabs on lvl 9, use stealth and this kit disadvantage (no metal armor) is not a tragedy. U can still use all dragon scale armors exept red Scale (acording some sites, forums, BGwiki) + ankheg full plate. Ank. is full plate but no mag. rings and Sh. dragon scale is same AC of 1+50 acid ressist. Dats not a bad start and in Tob (which I never finished) are white Dr. scales somewhere - for WdSc. armor Ac -2 I think.
U can still use Crom faeyr, Flail of ages... clubs, shileds, slings, dual-wield, backstab (but only with clubs, quarter staff) and smtg. like full plates + high level Cleric casting.
I think Ranger/Cleric (Stalker/Cleric) offers a huge amount of fun to explore and I am playing this right now.

Jatrrr

Wowo said:

abacus said:

Wowo said:

Grum said:

Fighter/druid gets ironskins, which is pretty nice for tanking.

Kensei 9 -> Druid is ridiculously good compared to a multi Fighter/Druid though.

Even a Berserker 7-> Druid is miles ahead of the multi.

Does the Kensai>Druid not suffer with the lack of armour? Not having the same range of protection spells as a Mage, I mean... Seem to me like you'd need a lot of castings of ironskins?

I've never tried it, so not certain either way....

Barkskin takes care of base AC and is eventually one of the best sources of AC in the game. Between the kensei bonus, barkskin and entropic shield you'll only be hit on natural 20s, which is what the ironskins are for.

For enemies that can hurt you there is beetle and later water elemental form which when combined with shield of faith give amazing physical damage reduction.

The only thing that I don't like about a kendru is that there is no ranged option, unlike a kencler (who has spiritual hammer) or a kenmage (who has Melfs Minute Meteors and Mordenkainens Sword). However you have plenty of spells to use in situations when ranged weapons are useful so it's no big deal.

I think Kensai/druid can still throw daggers with decent bonuses, I am not really sure but it is worth to try for one interested in this combo. I found Boomerang dagger +2 with no restrictions for Ken/druid. Maybe better are somewhere.

FinneousPJ

Jatrrr said:

dockaboomski said:

1. Yes. Fighter/Druids can only specialize in druid weapons; Cleric/Rangers in cleric weapons.
2. Cleric/Rangers do get a racial enemy, stealth, and the two free slots in two-weapon fighting.
3. Fighter/Druids can specialize in weapons and get proficiency slots as fighters, so more often than a druid would.

I think number 3. is wrong, as I tried a roll a new F/D few days ago, and it offers only druid weapons while created (BG2/ToB/-no mods). Which is not so bad as it seems. You can still use scimitars/clubs which is not such a tragedy and u can still shoot with slings, darts and there is some good returning +3 dagger i heard.

2. I am almost sure u can make Stalker/Cleric dual, wchich can be a really funny think. U can touch 3xbackstabs on lvl 9, use stealth and this kit disadvantage (no metal armor) is not a tragedy. U can still use all dragon scale armors exept red Scale (acording some sites, forums, BGwiki) + ankheg full plate. Ank. is full plate but no mag. rings and Sh. dragon scale is same AC of 1+50 acid ressist. Dats not a bad start and in Tob (which I never finished) are white Dr. scales somewhere - for WdSc. armor Ac -2 I think.
U can still use Crom faeyr, Flail of ages... clubs, shileds, slings, dual-wield, backstab (but only with clubs, quarter staff) and smtg. like full plates + high level Cleric casting.
I think Ranger/Cleric (Stalker/Cleric) offers a huge amount of fun to explore and I am playing this right now.

@Jatrrr #3 is not wrong, you just misinterpreted it. Have a look at #1.

Tommy123

There is an interesting "bug". A dual-classed Ranger->Cleric gets additional APR on cleric level 7 and 13 like a fighter-type class.

Francois

I would favor Ranger/Cleric because of the Turn Undead ability.

FinneousPJ

@Tommy123 I just tested it with a Ranger 2->Cleric and you seem to be correct. Very interesting!

FinneousPJ

Furthermore, does not work with F->C. Does not work in either BGEE, only IWDEE.

Tommy123

But it seems only useful if you want druid-spells (by changing the ini file) or if you use more than one weapon type. You reach 2.5 APR at R(2)->Cleric(13) ... but you can also achieve this far earlier with F(3)->Cleric(8) by choosing grand master for one weapon type.