Another team-building help thread
SBF1
Member Posts: 12
I wonder if every new member makes one of these threads at some point in their time. :V
Anyway, this is pretty much exactly what the title says; I'm looking for some character- and team-building help. Specifically, I'm trying to create some particular setups for my team, as they're basically a "port" of a team I used in Wizardry 8 (gr8 game btw), which themselves were a port of a six-character band I use and write in other games. I'm not really looking for min-maxing advice or the like just yet (maybe after I've beaten the game once and I decide to experiment with more classes and a higher difficulty), but more just what sort of functions you'd recommend. I've got a bunch of mods of extra kits (Duskblade, that one... big kit mod that adds a lot of Monks and stuff) as well, but I'll just describe the team I'm aiming for in a more basic sense.
Here's the loop:
A Monk. Because I love me some fistfighters, and Monks not only fit the bill, but their extra bonuses are very tempting. The Monk in Wiz8 was fantastic after a few levels, serving as both a great damage dealer and a decent sort of dodge-tank as well, at least somewhat (a slight tank). This one I don't really have any issues with, though I probably won't be taking advantage of their hiding and sneaking stuff, so it's a toss-up maybe. He'll probably be a melee damage dealer.
A Mage of some sort. Generally I prefer my casters to be Red Mages (more mage than warrior), but Wiz8 doesn't have any of that, so just a bombardier is what I'm looking for. Probably fire-based for reasons (not just because vs Ice and all that). I'm used to the Sorcerer from my dabbling in IWD2, and that functions well, but again, that's more pure mage rather than battlemage, so maybe a Mage/Fighter? I've never tried non-human races, though. Caster, of course.
A Fighter. The main tank, plain and simple. In Wiz8 he was a samurai, with good armor, dual-wielding powerful weapons and nice speed, but in D&D's case, I'm willing to sacrifice his two-sword mojo for any benefits a shield may provide his tanking. If you've got any particular kits you recommend there or if just going for the base Fighter is best, I'm game for whatever. Tank plus melee damage.
A Cleric. This one's a weird one, as my healer character's less of a traditional spellcasting priest and more of a speedy, sling-wielding alchemist (which was her class in Wiz8, natch). She had healing spells ("first aid training"), but her primary function was mixing healing potions, wielding her trusty sling and stones, and also throwing whatever throwables we had at monsters, be it molotov potions, wonder orbs, holy water, etc etc. With the normal Cleric, though, I'd be avoiding using their armor and their extra tank potential, so... hmm. Healer plus ranged damage.
A Bard. This is the trickiest one, as my bard-thief, "treasure hunter but also a thief" character was practically personified perfectly in Wiz8. In that game, the Bard was a warrior/thief as expected: she played instruments, she used a pair of knives to defend herself, but most importantly, Bards in Wiz8 pick locks. In Icewind Dale... none of the Bard kits do. And yesterday, to my chagrin, I read in the manual that IWD Bards can't dual-class or whatnot. I don't want to give up on having a dedicated lockpicker around, since I know that that'll be handy, but I also don't want to give up on the Bard's loremaster-y-ness and songs. Granted, Bards might learn an unlocking spell (I think?), but it's not quite the same. So it's a toss-up between a Thief (Shadowdancer, probably) or a Bard (likely just the base kit). Either way, a loremaster.
Lastly, a Ranger. This is literally the one I have no problems with. The Archer kit is perfect, matching Wiz8's Ranger to a T. Absolutely no problems there. Ranged damage dealer, of course, and he'd likely be a scouter, too.
So... wow, that was a lot longer-winded than I thought. Whoops! But hopefully I was able to get across what I'm aiming for. A lot of the systems of D&D2 (2E?) are new to me, since I originally got my start with IWD2, but I'm managing as best I'm able. Even just making lots of characters has been entertaining, and, weird as it sounds, educational.
Anyway, this is pretty much exactly what the title says; I'm looking for some character- and team-building help. Specifically, I'm trying to create some particular setups for my team, as they're basically a "port" of a team I used in Wizardry 8 (gr8 game btw), which themselves were a port of a six-character band I use and write in other games. I'm not really looking for min-maxing advice or the like just yet (maybe after I've beaten the game once and I decide to experiment with more classes and a higher difficulty), but more just what sort of functions you'd recommend. I've got a bunch of mods of extra kits (Duskblade, that one... big kit mod that adds a lot of Monks and stuff) as well, but I'll just describe the team I'm aiming for in a more basic sense.
Here's the loop:
A Monk. Because I love me some fistfighters, and Monks not only fit the bill, but their extra bonuses are very tempting. The Monk in Wiz8 was fantastic after a few levels, serving as both a great damage dealer and a decent sort of dodge-tank as well, at least somewhat (a slight tank). This one I don't really have any issues with, though I probably won't be taking advantage of their hiding and sneaking stuff, so it's a toss-up maybe. He'll probably be a melee damage dealer.
A Mage of some sort. Generally I prefer my casters to be Red Mages (more mage than warrior), but Wiz8 doesn't have any of that, so just a bombardier is what I'm looking for. Probably fire-based for reasons (not just because vs Ice and all that). I'm used to the Sorcerer from my dabbling in IWD2, and that functions well, but again, that's more pure mage rather than battlemage, so maybe a Mage/Fighter? I've never tried non-human races, though. Caster, of course.
A Fighter. The main tank, plain and simple. In Wiz8 he was a samurai, with good armor, dual-wielding powerful weapons and nice speed, but in D&D's case, I'm willing to sacrifice his two-sword mojo for any benefits a shield may provide his tanking. If you've got any particular kits you recommend there or if just going for the base Fighter is best, I'm game for whatever. Tank plus melee damage.
A Cleric. This one's a weird one, as my healer character's less of a traditional spellcasting priest and more of a speedy, sling-wielding alchemist (which was her class in Wiz8, natch). She had healing spells ("first aid training"), but her primary function was mixing healing potions, wielding her trusty sling and stones, and also throwing whatever throwables we had at monsters, be it molotov potions, wonder orbs, holy water, etc etc. With the normal Cleric, though, I'd be avoiding using their armor and their extra tank potential, so... hmm. Healer plus ranged damage.
A Bard. This is the trickiest one, as my bard-thief, "treasure hunter but also a thief" character was practically personified perfectly in Wiz8. In that game, the Bard was a warrior/thief as expected: she played instruments, she used a pair of knives to defend herself, but most importantly, Bards in Wiz8 pick locks. In Icewind Dale... none of the Bard kits do. And yesterday, to my chagrin, I read in the manual that IWD Bards can't dual-class or whatnot. I don't want to give up on having a dedicated lockpicker around, since I know that that'll be handy, but I also don't want to give up on the Bard's loremaster-y-ness and songs. Granted, Bards might learn an unlocking spell (I think?), but it's not quite the same. So it's a toss-up between a Thief (Shadowdancer, probably) or a Bard (likely just the base kit). Either way, a loremaster.
Lastly, a Ranger. This is literally the one I have no problems with. The Archer kit is perfect, matching Wiz8's Ranger to a T. Absolutely no problems there. Ranged damage dealer, of course, and he'd likely be a scouter, too.
So... wow, that was a lot longer-winded than I thought. Whoops! But hopefully I was able to get across what I'm aiming for. A lot of the systems of D&D2 (2E?) are new to me, since I originally got my start with IWD2, but I'm managing as best I'm able. Even just making lots of characters has been entertaining, and, weird as it sounds, educational.
0
Comments
As for cleric/thief, I hadn't actually thought about that. Seems like it could work well, though! My healer's basically a fast, dodgy sort that slips around scrapes and gets to everyone quick, so it makes sense. I'm just not sure how easily I'd be able to build her. Multi-classes and dual-classes I'm very in-the-dark about, since they sound more complicated to make than other ones. I know I said I'm playing on an easier difficulty to start off (not Story, but the one just above it), but I still tend to worry about this sort of thing, eheheh.
Don't worry about dual classes just yet but multis are simple enough.
I can't really blame you for not knowing much about mod classes (after all, I don't either
For what it's worth, I'm definitely willing to hear out other team compositions or any suggestions in that regard as well. Monk/Mage/Samu/Alch/Bard/Rang worked in Wizardry 8, but that was a game where you controlled everyone always and you couldn't send one person out scouting or separate the team or stuff, so the raw power of the team was more obvious. With D&D, I can see a team like that (Monk, Figh/Mage, Figh, Cler/Thei, Bard, Arch) possibly not doing quite as well, depending on the circumstances.
My team in IWD2, on that note, was Ranger (damage/tank), Fighter (tank), Cleric (heal/damage), Sorcerer (caster), Bard (buffer), and Rogue (thief/scout), and that worked really well. Then again... that was my IWD2 team, and it'd be weird bringing them back into the first game, EE or not.
I decided to go with a different team (for the moment; we're in Prologue goblin territory right now, so I can go back and do something different if I feel the need without losing much progress), but it's... kind of weird.
The team I've got right now is an Undead Hunter, Bard, Sorcerer, Shapeshifter, Assassin, and Barbarian. It's pretty similar to my IWD2 team, and it's... admittedly very much based on the recommendations people make for parts of the game (UH and Druid), but I've also never tried Barbarian, Paladin or Druid before so I figured it's a good excuse for me to branch out.
The first big issue here is that the Undead Hunter is... not very good at his tanking job. I don't know whether it's the stat allocations I did, his gear, bad luck, or what, but he can't deal good damage and he can't take a lot of hits either. My Barbarian deals better damage (which was always the intention; he's got a warhammer, after all), but he's also got way more hitpoints and seems way tankier to boot, and of course the Shapeshifter can morph herself into a werewolf and tear stuff to shreds.
I figure that it's mostly likely my stat allocation, as I didn't want to decrease anything too far since I know Paladins need a lot of particular stats. Granted, since UHs don't get Cure or Lay, maybe the magic stats aren't quite as important, but still. My UH has 14 in STR and INT, and 16 in DEX, CON, WIS and CHA. I'm guessing I should probably have lowered one of those and boosted DEX or STR instead?
The second big issue is that my Sorcerer is... really, really underwhelming, especially compared to IWD2. He didn't get a lot of spell picks during his character creation, he's got the slowest leveling out of all six of the team, he can barely take a hit, and in general he's just... not good. It's not helped by the fact that he doesn't get a lot of casts-per-day and due to being on Easy it auto-picked a spell for me. I should probably have turned that off sooner.
(And on a slightly-related note, the Magus modkit for Sorcs ( https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/31274/mod-beta-tome-and-blood-more-options-for-wizards-and-sorcerers/ ) are basically Red Mages like my original team, and they're supposed to be able to cast with armor on, but that didn't work for some reason. Blargh.)
Sorry to leave another wall of text again, but, well, any more tips? Like I said, I'm not very far into the prologue, so I have plenty of opportunity to revamp the team and start over without losing much. I may consider going with my original party plan again, even though the portraits I have are... a little immersion-breaking, to say the least (I'm sure you can guess from my avatar what I mean
I guess it's just kind of weird going from IWD2 to IWDEE. For one thing, nobody at the start of IWD2 died to goblins and things, while I had a few unfortunate reloads from abrupt deaths of my Bard or Sorcerer in IWDEE. I'm still getting to grips with it.
so here is some advice for your 2 melee'ers;
UNDEAD HUNTER crank his stats to 18 in str/dex/con ( and with the str, make sure it is 18/91 or higher, and as I said before if you can try and get 18/00, that will give him some serious hitting power) his int and wis are irrelevant in icewind dale, there are no mind flayer so int can be 3 for all power game/ usefulness purposes, his wis I believe is stuck at 13 min, so might as well keep that there, and cha min is 17, but if he is going to lead might as well crank it to 18
BARBARIAN might as well make him a half-orc because then you can really give him some god mode stats, if you do make him a half-orc crank that str to 19 dex to 18 and con to 19 that will give him some huge hitting power and great HP
for your other characters; as long as dex is cranked for your assassin and he has 16 con, you should be good, shapeshifter needs cranked wisdom and 16 con, bard should have cranked int and 16 con, and sorcerer I would suggest 18 wis ( for wish spells) and 16 con again and you should be good
note CON: unless it is a warrior type class ( fighter, paladin, ranger, barbarian) having more than 16 con will not add any further HP benefit
15 - +1 HP bonus/level
16 - +2 HP bonus/level ( this is max for all classes that aren't fighters, rangers, paladins or barbarians)
17 - +3 HP bonus/level
18 - +4 HP bonus/level
19 - +5 HP bonus/level
20 - +5 HP bonus/level + regen 1 HP every 6 rounds
21 - +6 HP bonus/level + regen 1 HP every 5 rounds
note STR: strength scores of less than 15 add no benefit at all in terms of to hit/ to damage and even just plain 18 gives +1 to hit/ +2 to damage but warrior classes again can get 18/xx and it goes as follows;
18/01-18/50 + 1 to hit/ +3 to damage
18/51-18/75 +2 to hit/ +3 to damage
18/76-18/90 +2 to hit/ +4 to damage
18/91-18/99 +2 to hit/ +5 to damage
18/00 +3 to hit/ +6 to damage
19 +3 to hit/ +7 to damage
note DEX: everyone benefits from dex bonus to ac but it doesn't start until you have 15 points and it goes as follow;
15 - +1 ac bonus +1*
16 - +2 ac bonus +1*
17 - +3 ac bonus +2*
18 - +4 ac bonus +2*
19 - +4 ac bonus +3*
20 - +4 ac bonus +3*
21 - +5 ac bonus +4*
that asterix bonus is your bonus to hit with missile weapons, so as you can see 19 dex has one more to hit with missile weapons than 18 does
I like the sorcerer better than the mage overall. Given that this game emphasizes tactics, the tactical flexibility of the sorcerer really shines. That said, you do have to know which spells are going to work, since you can't just swap them out next time you sleep.
For my sorceress' initial spells, I took magic missile and identify. MM is the best 1st level spell in the game, and a great way to interrupt enemy spellcasters, and ID saves you a lot of money which is pretty scarce in the early game. Put his one weapon proficiency in slings, this character shouldn't get in melee range until he gets stoneskin.
My sorceress was dealing damage and buffing the party right up to the end.
-1st you need a Ranger elf archer for sure. In prologue he will do almost all the killing by himself and after he will cripple ennemy before they engage melee.
-For tank I think the best it a dwarf with axe and trowing axe, but I prefer paladin for myself, because lay of hand posibily to buff himself. Cleric can do good tank to.
-For melee dps, you can do a monk, kansai or a barbarian. Paladin two-handed with a crossbow can do too. Ranger two-handed not so bad too. I think Kansai it the best, two-handed or with two weapon they are awesone.
-You need a thief, multi-class is best I think or if you human you can choose a kit and multi-class near lvl 7 to a mage or fighter. Gnome illusionist are one I use often but fighter/thief can be good to with a crossbow or a bow.
-For arcane support you can go for a bard, with shortbow and crossbow they nice, but if you want true power you need a sorcerer. Wizard if you want be more versatile.
-For healing if you made a tank cleric, you can do a druid or fighter/druid. If not you can do a druid to, but cleric will make you 2 shields users characters.
I think paladin are better than fighter for lot of reason for tank at least. Only better I think it the dwarf, but fighter are a good class for multi-class.
So the ultimate team will be I think:
1-Ranger archer elf composite longbow( Will got near 50% of the killing if you use him well)
2-Dwarf defender with axe and throwing axe
3-Thief/illusionist gnome crossbow( you will do more kill with a fighter/thief but illusionist get you access to some usefull wizard spell that your the sorcerer dont have.)
4-Sorcerer elf ( I usuely go for offensive spells and some defense spell,1 or 2 summon, leaving the control and buff to illusionist)
5-Kansai half-orc I really like two-handed sword but 2 weapons of 1d8 are real bad.
6-Cleric dwarf or half-orc
With that you cant lost. You use your ranged weapon 1st , dont forget throwing axe and when they close you engage with your dwarfs, with kansai on second line. Sorcerer cripple the thougest openent or can do mass damage.
Personnaly I almost always bring a paladin as tank or as dps with 2 handed sword and crossbow, and a bard because sorcerer are begining to be fun near lvl 10. Before they need wand and scroll and in IWD it not have much at start but you can always use some throwing potion too. Druid are more fun to play than cleric I think but cleric are harder to kill.
I often use babarian and if you doing evil party you need one for sure. As evil an assassin can be real nice too with invisibility potion and other invisibility items doing x7 backstab but in IWD lot of ennemy immune to backstab. In Bg2 assassin are a must for sure as evil party or as main in single are fun too.
Well for monk Im not a big fan but at higher level with all there immunity and speed they one of the best, but for the time it last they not really fun at start. In hearth of fury mode maybe you could reconsider to bringing one.
and after you choose the other from your liking.
1st : Magic Missile, sleep, chromatic orb, shield, (one melee, I usuely get burning hand or shock)
2nd: Melf acid arrows, mirror image, web, agannazars schorcher, (horror or blur for defense or invisibility)
3rd: Fireball, flame arrow, lighning bolt, dispel magic, (slow or melf minute meteor)
4ht: stone skin, spider spawn, spell sequencer, (improved invisibility(if you dont have invisibility) or fireshield for more defense, Mordenkein missile or ice strom for offense)
5ht: Animated dead, Chaos, dominate, spell immunity (cloud kill or cone of cold)( minor turning or oracle)
6th: Disintegrate(or flesh to stone),death spell, pierce magic, spell deflection, (contingency or almost any)
7th: finger of death, spell turning, seven eyes,( acid storm and sequencer...that begin be high lvl)
8th: Improved mantle, simulacrum,Horib wilting(spell trigger or maze...)
9th: I really like Gate but Time stop or meteor strom for the 1st choice.
I usualy leave the buff like a said to illusionist for haste and invisibility. And to the cleric true sight and mass protect from evil (...gate...)
Maybe go for a mage if you think changing strategy often, but eeIWDkeeper can be a good idea if you made a bad choice.