My party build
zunami
Member Posts: 42
Some background:
I've always been a fan of the infinity engine games.
So much so, that I once aspired to try to use the same character through all of them, seeing as it's possible to import a character from either Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale into Neverwinter Nights (which I guess isn't really an infinity engine game at all).
This was a long project, and it turned out not to work very well as the import into Neverwinter Nights was incredibly bad and wasn't supported in future patches and such, plus there were lots of glitches with the later releases of Icewind Dale II and Baldur's Gate II - Throne of Bhaal.
However, having always had this mindset, I always think pretty far ahead when I'm planning my character's in infinity engine games. Less so than before these days however.
My goal:
My goal was to create a setting-relevant party, but also to create an effective one.
I find that 2nd edition D&D (and even more so the Infinity Engine's take on the rules) was too restrictive with class/race limitations, so I'm NOT above using EE-keeper to make a combination that isn't legal in the game.
The Result:
Party Leader:
Human Paladin with the Cavalier kit.
The Cavalier cannot use ranged weapons, but gains additional immunities as a very nice band-aid. Being immune to mind-control and many other horribly debilitating effects, is a nice thing to have on the party-leader.
The Paladin get's some unique dialogue options in the game, that I really like. The paladin can "detect evil" in conversations, and can discern lies in conversations too, meaning often when you risk getting duped in the game, you can call people out as a Paladin.
It's good to have a high charisma on your party leader for price-reasons and reaction-bonuses, and seeing as the paladin naturally needs a charisma of 17, this is well taken care of.
Second melee:
Half-orc Cleric (Tempus)/Fighter (Barbarian).
This one isn't legal in the game, I know - I believe in the original release of Icewind Dale, the Barbarian was not in existence, and the closest thing was a fighter with the berserker kit which I believe was a possible build.
The Barbarian doesn't exist in the game files as a separate class (it does as a class choice - but in the game files, it's just a Fighter kit).
I find this combination SO damn setting relevant that it almost hurts.
With so man orcs in the Dales, I find that half-orcs must be common enough among the barbarians, plus the barbarians worship Tempus.
I use the cleric spell slots for utility spells like, Freedom, Disspell and such, to negate enemy spells, and not for healing.
The huge Con with the barbarian is being stuck with splint-mail and below. The bandaid is supposed to be the HP, but multiclassing into Cleric sort of removes that bandaid. It still evens out the lower HP advancement of the cleric compared to a normal warrior class, but there's some things to consider here.
Armor of faith helps in this case, I find it.
Ranged/reserve melee:
Elven Archer
There is a certain bow in the game, that is found relatively early, that allows 3 attacks per round. Using this with an elven archer with 19 dex, is like watching an archer going around with a machinegun. Getting some enchanted arrows on that thing, and it's pure carnage.
Combined with the entangle spell, I sometimes wonder if I'd need other character's than this guy and the mage with a fireball.
Healer:
halfling druid
Why a halfling? This is definitely not the optimal choice for a druid. I just like racial diversion in the party and would like to cram in a halfling somewhere.
The druid doesn't get as many useful utility spells as the cleric, but get's many more offensive spells that really kicks ♥♥♥... Sadly, I find myself desperately needing the druid for healing and can't really afford to sign over spell-slots to other things.
Support:
half-elf bard.
Half-elves make good bards. Bards are generally pretty crappy if you ask me, but they can lean some spells that they can cast before they enter combat, and then equip armor and function well enough as a ranged-support character.
The real reason I choose to have a bard in the group is because I have this idea that the group needs someone to write their story. It's a concept I adopted from the male Bard in Baldur's gate.
The anchor:
Gnome illusionist/thief
In Icewind Dale, I found that having a wizard in the party was a huge liability up until I reached level 9 or so, and finally found a scroll of fireball and some other useful spells.
The wizard was just a poor ranged fighter, whom I constantly had to keep out of combat.
Occasionally I had use of a wizard though, but I left identification to the bard so the wizard was mostly just a magic missile battery with occassional strategic uses of scorching ray and some tactical area of effect spells.
I had a similar experience with the thief, who was over-all a pretty useless character that I felt I was just lugging around to detect traps and pick locks.
My idea to combine them into one character worked exceptionally well.
by the time I finally started finding useful spells in the game, my character had just about reached the necessary level to cast said spells, and in the lower levels where my character was too weak to be useful as a wizard, I just equipped an armor on the character and made good use of the thief's broader selection of weapon choices.
I found that, despite being multiclassed, if I focussed all my points in the beginning on lock-picking (until it reached 100), and then started doing the same with trap finding, I never encountered a lock I couldn't pick or a trap I could't detect with this build yet.
___________
Overall:
This party makes incredibly much sense to me. I'm sad there isn't a dwarf in the party, but then again, I don't really feel like dwarves have a big part in the setting. then again, neither do halflings, but halfling druid worked better for me (is Dwarven druid even viable?).
With this build, I feel like I have a character that caters to all aspects of the game.
In the first town, my Barbarian/cleric has access to the unique Cleric/tempus dialogue at the temple, and the druid in the group can get some unique dialogue with the arch druid in Kuldahar.
I can't remember if my gnome thief/illusionist gets any unique dialogue with Oswald Fiddelbender, but I think she might. Further more, having an elf in the party is nice because elves are featured several times.
The bard actually turned out to be much more useful than first anticipated, because a lot of spells can be cast out of combat before entering a dangerous area, and it's always nice to have a few identify spells memorized.
The Paladin as a party leader also opens up a lot of unique dialogue.
Tactically:
The party works great. The two front-liners are a good team.
As the barbarian/cleric levels up, it can even squeeze in a few healing spells, which is great.
The machine-gun archer, once that bow is found, is so amazing a death dealer that it's just baffling. Well worth the sacrifice of metal armor and a small penalty to constitution.
I don't feel much of a loss from the lost spellslots of the Thief/illusionist, and in fact feel like I've made my "mage" more useful, and my thief less useless.
The bard as a support character is okay, but throwing in some of the utility spells I can't afford to select on the mage/thief due to reduced spellsplots from multiclassing is actually incredibly good. As a small side bonus, the bard covers the thieving skills I can't afford to raise on the mage/thief because of lost skillpoints. The bard can wear chain armor and can use crossbows and other good weapons, making it decent passive damage dealer that is no where near as squishy as a mage or a thief.
The hurdle:
In order to use this build, I have to "cheat".
The Barbarian class didn't exist in the original Icewind Dale, as said before, the closest was berserker kit for the fighter.
The barbarian wasn't even added as a full class in the game. It appears as a full class in the class selection, but in the game files, it's only a class kit.
Sadly, it appears the barbarian cannot multi-class because of the way it was added.
Despite the huge setting relevance for the barbarian, I didn't find any unique dialogue options.
the barbarian naturally existed in Icewind Dale II, so I'm hoping that if I export my characters to Icewind Dale II, there will be some unique dialogue available.
I'll wait and see.
_____________
Thoughts on the build?
I've always been a fan of the infinity engine games.
So much so, that I once aspired to try to use the same character through all of them, seeing as it's possible to import a character from either Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale into Neverwinter Nights (which I guess isn't really an infinity engine game at all).
This was a long project, and it turned out not to work very well as the import into Neverwinter Nights was incredibly bad and wasn't supported in future patches and such, plus there were lots of glitches with the later releases of Icewind Dale II and Baldur's Gate II - Throne of Bhaal.
However, having always had this mindset, I always think pretty far ahead when I'm planning my character's in infinity engine games. Less so than before these days however.
My goal:
My goal was to create a setting-relevant party, but also to create an effective one.
I find that 2nd edition D&D (and even more so the Infinity Engine's take on the rules) was too restrictive with class/race limitations, so I'm NOT above using EE-keeper to make a combination that isn't legal in the game.
The Result:
Party Leader:
Human Paladin with the Cavalier kit.
The Cavalier cannot use ranged weapons, but gains additional immunities as a very nice band-aid. Being immune to mind-control and many other horribly debilitating effects, is a nice thing to have on the party-leader.
The Paladin get's some unique dialogue options in the game, that I really like. The paladin can "detect evil" in conversations, and can discern lies in conversations too, meaning often when you risk getting duped in the game, you can call people out as a Paladin.
It's good to have a high charisma on your party leader for price-reasons and reaction-bonuses, and seeing as the paladin naturally needs a charisma of 17, this is well taken care of.
Second melee:
Half-orc Cleric (Tempus)/Fighter (Barbarian).
This one isn't legal in the game, I know - I believe in the original release of Icewind Dale, the Barbarian was not in existence, and the closest thing was a fighter with the berserker kit which I believe was a possible build.
The Barbarian doesn't exist in the game files as a separate class (it does as a class choice - but in the game files, it's just a Fighter kit).
I find this combination SO damn setting relevant that it almost hurts.
With so man orcs in the Dales, I find that half-orcs must be common enough among the barbarians, plus the barbarians worship Tempus.
I use the cleric spell slots for utility spells like, Freedom, Disspell and such, to negate enemy spells, and not for healing.
The huge Con with the barbarian is being stuck with splint-mail and below. The bandaid is supposed to be the HP, but multiclassing into Cleric sort of removes that bandaid. It still evens out the lower HP advancement of the cleric compared to a normal warrior class, but there's some things to consider here.
Armor of faith helps in this case, I find it.
Ranged/reserve melee:
Elven Archer
There is a certain bow in the game, that is found relatively early, that allows 3 attacks per round. Using this with an elven archer with 19 dex, is like watching an archer going around with a machinegun. Getting some enchanted arrows on that thing, and it's pure carnage.
Combined with the entangle spell, I sometimes wonder if I'd need other character's than this guy and the mage with a fireball.
Healer:
halfling druid
Why a halfling? This is definitely not the optimal choice for a druid. I just like racial diversion in the party and would like to cram in a halfling somewhere.
The druid doesn't get as many useful utility spells as the cleric, but get's many more offensive spells that really kicks ♥♥♥... Sadly, I find myself desperately needing the druid for healing and can't really afford to sign over spell-slots to other things.
Support:
half-elf bard.
Half-elves make good bards. Bards are generally pretty crappy if you ask me, but they can lean some spells that they can cast before they enter combat, and then equip armor and function well enough as a ranged-support character.
The real reason I choose to have a bard in the group is because I have this idea that the group needs someone to write their story. It's a concept I adopted from the male Bard in Baldur's gate.
The anchor:
Gnome illusionist/thief
In Icewind Dale, I found that having a wizard in the party was a huge liability up until I reached level 9 or so, and finally found a scroll of fireball and some other useful spells.
The wizard was just a poor ranged fighter, whom I constantly had to keep out of combat.
Occasionally I had use of a wizard though, but I left identification to the bard so the wizard was mostly just a magic missile battery with occassional strategic uses of scorching ray and some tactical area of effect spells.
I had a similar experience with the thief, who was over-all a pretty useless character that I felt I was just lugging around to detect traps and pick locks.
My idea to combine them into one character worked exceptionally well.
by the time I finally started finding useful spells in the game, my character had just about reached the necessary level to cast said spells, and in the lower levels where my character was too weak to be useful as a wizard, I just equipped an armor on the character and made good use of the thief's broader selection of weapon choices.
I found that, despite being multiclassed, if I focussed all my points in the beginning on lock-picking (until it reached 100), and then started doing the same with trap finding, I never encountered a lock I couldn't pick or a trap I could't detect with this build yet.
___________
Overall:
This party makes incredibly much sense to me. I'm sad there isn't a dwarf in the party, but then again, I don't really feel like dwarves have a big part in the setting. then again, neither do halflings, but halfling druid worked better for me (is Dwarven druid even viable?).
With this build, I feel like I have a character that caters to all aspects of the game.
In the first town, my Barbarian/cleric has access to the unique Cleric/tempus dialogue at the temple, and the druid in the group can get some unique dialogue with the arch druid in Kuldahar.
I can't remember if my gnome thief/illusionist gets any unique dialogue with Oswald Fiddelbender, but I think she might. Further more, having an elf in the party is nice because elves are featured several times.
The bard actually turned out to be much more useful than first anticipated, because a lot of spells can be cast out of combat before entering a dangerous area, and it's always nice to have a few identify spells memorized.
The Paladin as a party leader also opens up a lot of unique dialogue.
Tactically:
The party works great. The two front-liners are a good team.
As the barbarian/cleric levels up, it can even squeeze in a few healing spells, which is great.
The machine-gun archer, once that bow is found, is so amazing a death dealer that it's just baffling. Well worth the sacrifice of metal armor and a small penalty to constitution.
I don't feel much of a loss from the lost spellslots of the Thief/illusionist, and in fact feel like I've made my "mage" more useful, and my thief less useless.
The bard as a support character is okay, but throwing in some of the utility spells I can't afford to select on the mage/thief due to reduced spellsplots from multiclassing is actually incredibly good. As a small side bonus, the bard covers the thieving skills I can't afford to raise on the mage/thief because of lost skillpoints. The bard can wear chain armor and can use crossbows and other good weapons, making it decent passive damage dealer that is no where near as squishy as a mage or a thief.
The hurdle:
In order to use this build, I have to "cheat".
The Barbarian class didn't exist in the original Icewind Dale, as said before, the closest was berserker kit for the fighter.
The barbarian wasn't even added as a full class in the game. It appears as a full class in the class selection, but in the game files, it's only a class kit.
Sadly, it appears the barbarian cannot multi-class because of the way it was added.
Despite the huge setting relevance for the barbarian, I didn't find any unique dialogue options.
the barbarian naturally existed in Icewind Dale II, so I'm hoping that if I export my characters to Icewind Dale II, there will be some unique dialogue available.
I'll wait and see.
_____________
Thoughts on the build?
0
Comments
I don't think you can import into IWD2, since it uses a different ruleset. It wouldn't make sense anyway, since it's a completely new story.
As for the party composition, it seems fine. It's definitely powerful enough. The pure class druid might be better as a fighter dual or multi. The Barb/Cleric should be possible with some editing. I think @Lord_Tansheron has mentioned modding one in his game?
I didn't even consider just making a human barbarian level 1 and then dual classing into cleric.
Maybe I should have.
I'm pretty sure the original Icewind dale game was possible to import into icewind dale II. I seem to recall that I did it.
I know that Baldur's Gate II without the expansion (or maybe it was Baldur's Gate I without the expansion?) could export to Neverwinter Nights (pre-expansions to NWN).
I know that it was a crappy port that required you to redo most of your character anyway, but it was possible.
It wasn't an easy process though!
I think it was only supported around the time of the release of NWN, and used a conversion tool that probably isn't available anymore. Maybe at Sorcerer's Palace...
_____
I'm pretty experienced with 2nd ed and infinity engine games by now, but I could never figure out the good class combinations.
I remember Jaheera was a fighter/druid and it didn't seem to impair her spell-casting ability much, but on the other hand, it didn't seem to make much of a difference for her fighting abilities either.
I can't remember if she could wear heavy armor or not.
I remember that she was limited to druid weapons though.
Fighter/druid is a popular combination I hear though.