Whats better for BG 1:EE only, Berserker/Thief or Archer/Thief?
Alchemy413
Member Posts: 52
I have a berserker/thief dual wielding Two scimitars Twinkle and iceingdeath but I miss doing range.... What would u think would be better in baldurs gate 1? Archer/thief or Berserker/thief?
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But yeah, sadly you don't really get any dual classing options with the Archer kit, though you can play a base Fighter and have them level up their ranged ability then dual class into Thief. Generally the better option would be starting off with a Thief kit then dual classing into a Fighter though, and there are a few decent options for the Thief kits which provide useful bonuses.
So pretty much the best archer would be an Elf archer. Then I would lose out on my thief skills. sigh
Thanks for the info bro.
However, even though something like a Blackguard can't dual class, an Assassin can and comes with the same Poison Weapon ability they do. Though of course if dual classing, your abilities as a Thief will only reach a certain level and you'd be doing it for maxing out two thieving skills and getting whatever bonuses you can out of your kit for transitioning into Fighter. If trying to go for a backstabbing Thief, this probably isn't the best choice as the BG1 level cap will mean getting a decent backstab multiplier would mean dual classing in the 2nd game instead. However, if going for a Swashbuckler who can't backstab anyway or going with an Assassin and getting the attack/damage bonus and a charge or two of Poison Weapon, those can be useful kits for dualing into Fighter. You lose the potentially great backstab multiplier for an Assassin, but any Thief kit dual classed will have to either deal with that backstab compromise or will have to wait an incredibly long time in BG2 to get their old Thief abilities back.
For a Swashbuckler, dualing at around level 6 or 7 means you can still get your old abilities back in the first game from the generally fast level progression of a Thief, and get an extra bonus out of the kit with the armor class and damage/to hit bonuses which being permanent help out greatly for a Fighter. Not being able to backstab isn't a big deal because it'd only ever be at a X2 multiplier if you dual class in BG1 with a different kind of Thief, and a Fighter with the Swashbuckler bonuses is going to be doing Fighter things anyway mostly, switching out armor when necessary for Thief stuff unless you have some great armor that allows thieving abilities.
As for your other comment, yeah an Archer dual classed with something else other than a Cleric would be great. Archer dual classed into Mage would be awesome, if there were an equivalent of an Archer kit for the Fighter class. The consolation is you can be the Swashbuckler dual classed into Fighter and get a few attack bonuses which effect all your weapons along with a few free points of armor class. Elf Archers are a great class on their own though especially with BG1. There's a mod which seeks to balance them out a bit better with their abilities/penalties as well as their options into BG2 which make them a more viable class in BG2 where magical arrows in the base game gimped the Archer and their viability. I'd recommend giving that mod a shot if you want to try out the Archer kit and play all the way through both games.
All corans points at level 3 where genrously put into move silently and lockpicking... I am just left with putting the rest of the points in find traps.
So your defenses can still end up being really solid especially against opposing ranged attacks with high Dexterity + good equipment. Generally in BG1 the most important Thief abilities are Disarm Trap then Open Locks, so just Coran is more than enough to get the job done and he's an excellent damage dealer. Since you can't get Alora until a much later portion in the game than the other NPCs, I'd recommend instead of using her for pickpocketing I'd go for leveling up Garrick the Bard in Beregost. Bards naturally get pickpocket and you can pick him up early as a placeholder party member as well. Get him up to around level 4 or 5 and he can identify a good deal of things for you as a Bard as well as having decent pickpocket (you can also use potions to up his pickpocket temporarily for a pickpocketing spree). Later in the game spending 100 gold or using an identify spell may not be a big deal, but through the mid game that ability to identify stuff on the spot does help and he's more useful than the other bard you can get (and you get him much sooner). So with him he can be a decent placeholder early and doesn't conflict with anyone you have, and has good Dexterity plus a proficiency in Crossbows.
– Armor Class: +2
– Saving Throws: +2
– Find Traps: +10%
- Open Locks: +10%
– Pick Pockets: +10%
– Move Silently: +10%
– Hide In Shadows: +10%
– Detect Illusion: +10%
– Set Traps: +10%
– Luck: +2
As you can see it's an improved ring of protection +2 that she can equip with a magical armor. The luck makes it so that her minimum damage is 3 while using weapons like the shortbow. Alora is phenomenally good with her rabbits foot and 19 dexterity, I always clua her into my game in Candlekeep and she is always my thief. She is also the only thief in BG1 that can reach 100 in just about every single skill.
At max level with only gauntlets of mastery equiped on both of them and their best bows
Kivan has with full plate and ring +1
-3 AC
76 HP
4 thaco
10-15 damage x3 attacks
And Way better in melee
Plus can wear helmet
Alora has with shadow armor and rabbits foot
-2 AC
50 HP
8 thaco
7-12 damage x2 attacks
Back stab
But with +2 Luck she has
6 thaco
9-14 damage x2 attacks
Dorn with Full plate and ring +1
-2 AC
80 HP
6 Thaco
10-15 damage x3 attacks
and Way better in melee
Plus can wear helmet
Plus has poison weapon and aura of despair.
In regular battles kivan is slightly better than Dorn... But regular battles are too easy it doesn't matter. In boss battles Dorns Poison weapons tips the scale in his favor by a good amount but that isn't what really makes him better... Aura of Despair causes the whole group too do more damage in boss battles including Dorn and he is better in close combat.
With just Coran I can do everything I need with thief skills except, pickpocket... But I can always pick up alora later in the game and just do a pickpocket running spree all over the sword coast till I hav pickocketed everyone then dump her ad coran and continue the game that no longer needs pick pocket.
1.) You don't need that much ranged firepower - you can always use thieving skills.
2.) Alora is the better thief. (Much better than Coran)
3.) Replace Alora with Dorn for more thieving skills (Alora + Coran) or replace Alora with Coran and Kivan with Dorn.
My dream team is :
Korgan - Tank (Dex gauntlets, Str belt) 19 STR, 18 DEX, 20 CON, shorty saving throws and 4* axe.
Alora - Rogue (Shadow armor, boots of stealth)
And then insert whatever you want after that.
When I don't need those thief skills to be that strong... I would rather have better battle power.
from best to worse battle wise for range
1. PC Archer
2. Coran
3. Dorn
4. Kivan
5. Alora
However, if I wanted to add Another archer I would choose Alora over Kivan.
But i am going to check it out now.
Be right back
By the way thank you for posting. I like the things you say.
Has
120 Hp
-4 ac
3 thaco
15-20 damage x2 attacks
Plus he can use a shield
He doesn't do more damage because the damage that i showed the others do I did not add the pluses such as 1d6 fire damage that the arrows give for added effect. But without the added effect of the arrows they still do more damage and disrupt the enemy more... But where he does win is being a very good tank who can also still dish out damage.
He has with DUHM.
98 HP
-4 AC
6 thaco
17-20 damage x2- does not include added effects from some special bullets.
He can also have a shield
Cleric spells very much needed.
The problem is that if I choose kaigan I lose out on damage in the long run because now I need to choose someone else for my cleric such as Viconia... the other pure clerics lack in damage. But if I forgo having a cleric I lose out on spells that are very important for the tough aecletec boss.
lets say One team has kaigan and viconia
the other has yeslick and Kivan or coran or dorn or another powerhouse
Kaigan does slightly better damage and tanking then yesleck
Kivan or another does way better Damage by double the amount than Viconia and have way better tanking which makes up for the slightly less tanking of yeslick.
Viconia and kaigan only have 2 more spells then yeslick and the other
The more damage you do the less defense you need.
Yeslick and the other for the win.
If kaigan was way better than yeslick, than the two combos would be even. but this is not the case.
Also, kaigan doesn't actually dish out more damage than kivan or Coran. Coran has 1 thaco so he will hit more often and it is x3 attacks. WAY more damage. Kivan does more damage because he has x3 attacks and only 1 less in thaco. Just take one attack out and he still deals a little more damage then kaigan. Kaigans issue is that he only gets x2 attacks. so multiply that by the damage I gave and that is smaller than kivans multiplied by 2 adding the fire damage,, even without the fire damage he does a little more damage. But Dorn has 3 less in thaco... but he does use bolts of biting plus his poison arrow stacked with it... So because of that they either do the same damage or Dorn does more but the point of dorn even if he does less damage by a little, being better in ranged is because poison is an awesome disrupter... With two poisons being inflicted on the target plus his regular bolts hitting.... No chance.. Hitting is my great defense and slows the enemies advanse. I also like to hit many targets and try to have a few suffer poison. In the end it is not his range or dps that makes Kagain Amazing it is his tank ability. He is a tank that can still hit hard. Don't forget aura of dispair that makes the enemies easier targets for the whole group.
However, I think that Kaigan is way better then Kivan. Kivan is really just mediocre he is just the next best damage dealing archer on the list.
Both Yeslick and Kagain fight for the Gauntlets of Dexterity so it's up to you which you rather have. I pick Kagain myself because nothing in the game stands up to his 19/18/20 with ridiculous saving throws and HP.
but they don't just fight for the gauntlets... U can not have them together in the same group. They will kill each other.
1.) if Kaigan is only sightly better than yeslick as tank and damge dealer
2.) Kivan or Dorn or another is more than double the damage than Viconia and more tanky by ALOT than Viconia.
3.) yeslick/ other member > Kaigan/Viconia
Kaigan and Viconia combo only get 2 more spells and have around same over all defense... But the damage pales by a huge margin.
Yeslick/other for the win.
That would kickass. The team would be impossible to kill and would snipe the enemys like crazy.
Furthermore this one will not be transfered
1. PC Archer
2. Coran
3. Dorn
4.Yeslick
5.Baeloth
6.Edwin
However... If I was to get rid of someone to be more ranged and less spell casting I would put alora in place of one of the spell casters...
Would that be better or no?
I honestly feel that in this game the only Npcs who are not just great or mediocre but are Amazing are
1.Dorn
2.Coran
3.Kaigan
4.Yeslick
5.Baeloth
6. Alora
7. Edwin
8. Kivan
ANy best end game team in bg1 will always have a huge portion of them
Coran = 60% rogue skills
Alora = 100% rogue skills
So you'll end up with 160% when you run both, which is more than you'll ever need. So either run Coran as your only rogue and survive with only having 60% or change him for Alora and lose out on some damage for 100%.
I checked out what Coran will get and at max level
HP 62
Ac -4
Thaco 1
Damage 10-15 x3 attacks -does not include extra ability from arrows
Holy shit.... can he ever miss lol
What is better ?
1. PC archer
2. Coran
3. Dorn
4. Yeslick
5. Kivan
6. Edwin
or
1. PC archer
2. Coran
3. Dorn
4. Yeslick
5. Kivan
6. Baeloth
or
1. PC archer
2. Coran
3. Dorn
4. Yeslick
5. Baeloth
6. Edwin
???
Ha if i wanted to just be ranged... probably not a good idea but still kick ass lol I could add alora for the sixth character for archer. They would all have the best ranged weapons in the game
2x Composite longbow +1, Xbow of speed +1, long bow +2, Short bow +2, and Sling +3 LOL
The Game creators may have had this team in mind for best pure archery team in the game.
Ha I would love any one of those 4 teams but I would rahter have at least one spell caster..
A ranged team with at least one cleric and mage > pure ranged team without at least one mage and cleric.
Okay, it is true that Kensai does more damage... But there comes a time when i need to stop myself from going too far. Kensai can't wear any armor. But archer can wear good ankeg armor. I can't make myself too much like paper and just leave dorn all alone...
Kaigan doesn't deal more damage then any of those archers i described except for maybe Dorn. But Dorn does more melee damage and his poison weapon mixed with poison bolt could possibly make him do same amount of damage.. but what makes him good is he has a better ability to disrupt the enemies by adding poisons on more than one target. He also has aura of despair that allows everyone to hit the bosses better. More range dps. I think you over looked that Kivan has the x3 attacks so need to multiply the damage given by 3 where as Kaigan has x2. the thaco is only 1 point difference but the extra attack is what really make kivan better with damage... However, Kagain is better than kivan all around. Kivan is just really mediocre. and Dorn and Kaigan are equal.
Corans 1 thaco is amazing and he has x3 attacks. multiply the damage I gave by 3 and kaigans by two and it will look like this.
Kaigan=3 thaco and 30-40 damage
Coran=1 thaco and 33-63 damage added the fire damage to it.
Kivan is only barely better and Dorn possibly worse or the same but is better for disrupting targets when in boss battles and will use aura of dispair which is like giving the party +2 to thaco because it makes the enemies(there is no saving throws to this ability) have -2. in regular fights the dps differences do not matter, all the enemies die before reaching me... Making tanking non existent for my group. Only with the werewolf and acletec will i need any tanks at all.... furthermore, In boss fights the damage difference matters and Dorn surpasses in this.