Best Summary of FR Deity I've Ever Seen

BelgarathMTH

Hey, friends, I've been playing Neverwinter Nights for the past couple of weeks, and I just collected this in-game lore book called "The Time of Troubles", and it gave the best summary of Forgotten Realms Deity I've ever seen, including on any wikis. In fact, the official NWN wiki doesn't even list this book in its woefully incomplete list of books.

So, the most efficient way I can find to share the text of it with all the BG:EE players who have never or may never play NWN, I am going to post the text here. I found it a fascinating reference source, with lots of trivia about the Godswar I had not remembered.



I found it particularly insightful and relevant to BG that Bhaal had no living, breathing, avatar, but rather was weakened by Ao to the point of having only the ability to possess mortals. That explains a lot about various racial bhaalspawn, even the dragon, although, Abazigal and his son would have needed some kind of magical greatly accelerated growth. Perhaps being born of a dragon as a Bhaalspawn causes the offspring to grow at human rates?

Now that I think of it, Bhaalspawn of non-human origin would have needed the magical growth rate anyway, and even the human Bhaalspawn as well, since there is only about ten years in the timeline between the Time of Troubles and the Bhaalspawn saga.

That doesn't bother me, since accelerated growth of monster-spawn and demon-spawn is a fairly well-established trope of sci-fi and fantasy, in various Star Trek episodes and horror movies.

I guess Gorion could have kept Charname's and Imoen's natures hidden from the Candlekeep population by presenting them as 10 or 12 year olds when they were actually only three or four, such that they would appear to the public to be 16-20 years old when they were actually only 10 years old in magical time.

I'm stretching to try to fill in this particular set of BG plotholes in relation to the "official" FR timeline.

Nevertheless, this topic is about FR deity, and I found the NWN book summarizing to be very valuable for imagining the divine situation of our crpg's based on the setting, especially the BG Trilogy and Neverwinter Nights.

EDIT: I mentioned in another topic about FR deity that I had not seen Nobanion mentioned in BG or NWN. But, he is in fact mentioned in this lore source as the anti-deity to Malar. I find that very interesting and telling. I should probably worship Nobanion as his cleric or druid, except that I don't think he sponsors druids, only clerics and pallys. (Nobanion is kind of perfect for me since I have a pally-like nature, always worried about duty, order, and the common good, but yet I love cats so much I mostly want to play nowadays as a druid who can get a cat animal companion or a totemist druid who can get a spirit lion.)

Grum

As per age I think that bhaal had a timeline for his resurrection so all Bhaalspawn would mature by then. Charname would have known if he was a four year old looking 20, he would have known that he was different. In BG1, being a Bhaalspawn was a shock. He/she starts off thinking that he/she is a normal (insert race here).

Even as an elf, being 'mature' is about emotional maturity more than anything else. To a human, a 20 year old elf who grew up raised as a human will be seen as a 20 year old. And the elf will likely act as such. A 20 year old elf raised in an elven community will be treated like a child and will likely act as such.

So Abizigail the dragon probably has a fast development so he could reach the right potential for sacrifice/bloodshed at the time of the prophecy, which coincided with the age of maturity for a human (ie: what Bhaal was before his ascension).

BelgarathMTH

@Grum, I applaud your insight, but I require clarification of what you mean by that last parenthetical statement. The lore source I am quoting from NWN establishes that Bhaal was never a physical, biological mortal of any kind, but rather, merely a disembodied evil spirit who had the power to possess male mortals and use them to impregnate females of any mortal species with his divine essence, including the dragons, who are long-lived but far from immortal.

Grum

BelgarathMTH said:

@Grum, I applaud your insight, but I require clarification of what you mean by that last parenthetical statement. The lore source I am quoting from NWN establishes that Bhaal was never a physical, biological mortal of any kind, but rather, merely a disembodied evil spirit who had the power to possess male mortals and use them to impregnate females of any mortal species with his divine essence, including the dragons, who are long-lived but far from immortal.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bhaal

"Bhaal (pronounced Beh-HAHL)[1], the Lord of Murder, was originally a mortal and one of the Dead Three. Along with Bane and Myrkul, Bhaal took the portfolios of the ancient deity Jergal.[3]"

Cheers!

BelgarathMTH

@Grum, yes, but doesn't that reference far predate the Bhaalspawn Crisis, and the Godswar? My line of thought was in relation to the Bhaalspawn Crisis specifically, after Ao had "thrown the gods from the heavens" and started the "Avatar Crisis", in which Bhaal did not get a physical avatar at all, but rather was a disembodied evil spirit possessing mortal males in order to complete his plan, as outlined by The Wise Alaundo:

...Gregorian chant... "The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sewn from their passage. So sayeth The Wise Alaundo."

Very interesting that the base Alaundish prophecy of the entire Bhaalspawn crisis mentions specifically and precisely *twenty* Bhaalspawn.

1) Charname
2) Imoen
3) Illasera
4) Yaga-Shura
5) Balthazaar
6) Gromnir-Il-Khaan
7) that scared guy you meet who begs you to leave him alone before he dies ignominiously.
8) Abazigal
9) Sendai
10) Melissan
11) Sarevok

Were the other Nine I can't think of ever mentioned in the game?

BillyYank

12) The one Sarevok throws off the Iron Throne HQ?

BelgarathMTH

@BillyYank , Holy forgotten weaker Bhaalspawn, Batman! How could I forget that poor, unfortunate soul?

Grum

The other 9?

Viekrang is one. He is the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Saradush.

There is the dead man in the first challenge in Throne of Bhaal.

Illisera hunter down a lot of them.

It is heavily hinted that the elven and dwarven refugees in Saradush were all Bhaalspawn as well.

The end cinematic of BG1 shows lots and lots of Bhaalspawn.

So I think that there were more than 20. Where did you get that number?

BelgarathMTH

@Grum, "... a SCORE of mortal progeny..., so sayeth the Wise Alaundo."

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=score+number&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS651US651&q=score+number&gs_l=hp...0l5.0.0.0.3097...........0.M3jJxuOCGcw

Grum

Good catch!

1) Charname
2) Imoen
3) Illasera
4) Yaga-Shura
5) Balthazaar
6) Gromnir-Il-Khaan
7) Viekrang
8) Abazigal
9) Sendai
10) Sarevok
11) The one Sarevok kills in BG1 cinematic
12-15) The three joke Bhaalspawn outside of Yaga's temple
16) The one Yaga hunter down in the desert, as detailed in his journal
17+) The ones that Illisera hunter down, as she mounted heads, plural

Then there are the "stragglers", plural, in Saradush.

I personally think that the designers didn't hold fast to 20, as the background of hunting down Bhaalspawn throughout the swordcoast, people being run out of towns, and the end cinematic in BG1 showing dozens of Bhaalspawn, makes the number seem much higher.

Also Gorion in ToB mentions many Bhaalspawn babies being sacrificed, with him only saving Charname. Sarevok was one of the few who escaped alone. That alone pushes the number of Bhaalspawn up as well.

Then again, the timeline (Abizigail having a full grown son) and numbers have never been the series strongpoint. There is a lot of fudging, it seems.

Jalily

Melissan isn't a Bhaalspawn.

scriver

A "score" can just mean "a number". It doesn't have to mean the original 20.

Dragonspear

Deleted

Grum

...nightly entertainment?

Dragonspear

Grum said:

...nightly entertainment?

I couldn't think of a better way to explain it unfortunately. Similar to like s house band for bars etc round here. One of those "I swear if I have to play Pianoman one more times", but instead of just being like the band. Occasionally she'd put on plays or something

BillyYank

Dragonspear said:

Grum said:

...nightly entertainment?

I couldn't think of a better way to explain it unfortunately. Similar to like s house band for bars etc round here. One of those "I swear if I have to play Pianoman one more times", but instead of just being like the band. Occasionally she'd put on plays or something

I guess my mind is in the gutter, because that's not what went through my head when I read your post.

Dragonspear

@BillyYank

Oh I'm aware, but I was literally writing that up when I was half asleep. I should prolly delete it now that I've explained it elsewhere. God, I hate close/opening at work. Leads to an overflow of the stupids

lunar

In the opening of bg2 it says 'One such deity foresaw his own death, and he walked the earth before the cataclysm. He left a score of mortal progeny, intended to be the fuel for his rebirth.'

I always understood from that line that Bhaali somehow, actually knew about his death, (when it will be, not how, since he still fell to a backstab from Cyric) and took action way before the time of troubles, as he walked the earth in another race disguise to impregnate women of different races. While he was still a god. Zeus style.

Thus, not all bhaalspawn were made during time of troubles, and indeed, Bhaal was too busy slaughtering and fighting off enemies in his Slayer form in the actual time of troubles, instead of making sweet love to a dragon or elf, according to canon book. He may have sired an elven or even dragon child in his time before the time of troubles, thus no need for 'quick growth' nonsense. Ofcourse, if charname is elven, this logic fails as Gorion explicitly says he rescued the charname 20 years ago, when he was still a babe. As long as charname is human (and he is in canon) everything makes sense.