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The Undeniable Power of Gnome Fighter/Illusionists

HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Gnome Fighter/Illusionists are just ridiculous. Does anyone else ever give them a try? They are my main in BG1 in the rare occasions I play good align, and I *always* make one for the party when I play IWD, where they are even more ripped. A fighter type with a bonus spell slot (specialist mage), 19 intelligence, Blur/Mirror Image/Stoneskin yourself after slipping into your Elven Chain (at least in IWD) to become basically unhittable, and then hit them with a magic missile just for fun as you're swinging on them. Plus the high dex pre-req means you get good stats more often then not.

Comments

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Don't forget gnomes get better saving throws. It's just vs. spell and wand, but still.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    It's mostly due to the famously powerful and well synergized fighter/mage combination rather than the particular gnome/specialist attributes imo, but yes.
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    Shin said:

    It's mostly due to the famously powerful and well synergized fighter/mage combination rather than the particular gnome/specialist attributes imo, but yes.

    True that, but the extra spell slot does go a long way imo since they're the only race that can multi-class with a specialist mage.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Shin said:

    It's mostly due to the famously powerful and well synergized fighter/mage combination rather than the particular gnome/specialist attributes imo, but yes.

    But they ARE better at it than any other potential race.

    Half-Elves gain a small bonus to resist enchantment spells. That's it.

    Regular elves get the fun bonuses to large swords, but 19 dexterity doesn't help any more than 18 does in melee and you lose out on HP per level from 17 vs. 18 constitution.

    Hard to argue with 19 intelligence when playing with core rules. 18 int = 85% success rate scribing spells (roll of 1-3 on a d20 fails) and 18 spells per level cap known. 19 int = 95% success rate (only nat 1's are a fail) and no limit on spells known.

    And then there's that +5 to saving throws vs. Spells and Wands. It's REALLY hard to understate how awesome that is.

    I guess we could throw humans in here because dual-classing leads to some pretty broken combinations. But that's not multi-class!
  • PaheejPaheej Member Posts: 126
    Humans are clearly the best compared even to this gnome abomination you speak of.

    Dual-class, ah, the boon of the power gamer.
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    Fighter/mages and their variations are gods. This class(es) is what I believe "the true Bhaalspawn"(meaning CHARNAME) should be.
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    When I've played a fighter/mage I've always been an Elf.

    I have often thought about playing a Gnome instead. But I like ending up with 21 dex, any further bonus to my AC to counter fighter/mages low HP is welcome. In regards to Elves con - By the end of BG2 I end up with 21 con as an Elf anyway, so I'll have the same amount of HP as a gnome would. I also enjoy a greater range of spells, I like my PC to be less limited.

    Gnomes are great, fighter/mages are powerhouses. I'm just usually an elf. It's always been a race/class I say I'll be next time, guess I'm too much a creature of habit.
  • raywindraywind Member Posts: 289
    most broken thing is kensai thief dual. or berserker cleric dual.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    The extra dexterity once all things are said and done is nice, but there is practically no difference in melee combat prowess between 18 and 20 dex. Next -AC doesn't kick in til 21 and typically by the time you get there, AC doesn't even mean anything because seemingly every attack thrown your way lands and it ends up coming down to buff spells. The extra attack prowess with long swords is pretty cool, though. (If only there were any really stand out longswords pre Throne of Bhaal.)

    It comes down to whether or not you value the extra bonuses to longswords + necromancy vs. the extra saving throws + an extra spell slot per day. My money is on the extra saving throws. I'm cool with losing Vampiric Touch and Horrid Wilting on my fighter/mages because I tend to use them as the recipients of buffs to make melee attacks wreck things. Damage by way of attacking rather than by way of the actual spells themselves, you know?

    Give it a shot, long story short!
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Paheej said:

    Humans are clearly the best compared even to this gnome abomination you speak of.

    Dual-class, ah, the boon of the power gamer.

    Boooo, dual-class, boooo....
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @SandmanCCL

    Daystar, Dragon Slayer LS, Daystar (Useless but still a nice +3 longsword), and The Equalizer.

    I'm trying to think of other non-generic longswords in SoA. Sword of Flame +1?

    I also heard a rumor that in the BG and BG2 engine elves were screwed up and allowed extra Thac0 on bastard swords and greatswords as well. Those would nicely increase your options.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    I've actually never liked F/M multiclasses. Mage part levels up too slowly for my taste. The last time I made an F/M he was still derping around with level 6 and 7 spells in ToB.

    Gnome F/I is a fair sight better, what with the saving throws and bonus spells and all.

    Dual-class is still the most powerful of all, but I think that goes without saying.


    An option I actually prefer, and one I use all the time in Icewind Dale, is the Gnome Illusionist/Thief. The all-around support character. Plus Invisibility is far more reliable than Stealth, and you can find and disarm traps without breaking it. In terms of raw power, probably not as good as the F/I, but in terms of overall usefulness? Fantastic, in my books.

    Of course, this, too, falls prey to being inferior to its dual-class brother. But really, what doesn't?
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389

    @SandmanCCL

    Daystar, Dragon Slayer LS, Daystar (Useless but still a nice +3 longsword), and The Equalizer.

    I'm trying to think of other non-generic longswords in SoA. Sword of Flame +1?

    I also heard a rumor that in the BG and BG2 engine elves were screwed up and allowed extra Thac0 on bastard swords and greatswords as well. Those would nicely increase your options.

    I know for BG1 their bonus simply applies to any weapon labeled "large sword" so they were borderline OP as melee combatants. I thought that was fixed for BG2, and I'm almost certain it will be for BG:EE because I'm pretty sure I've seen it pointed out in the features/bugs forums.

    I guess it's true there are a lot of good long swords in BG2. There are a bunch of good +2 ones, but you're limited to Blade of Roses (useless +charisma) and the Equalizer whenever you need a weapon that breaks +2 enchantment immunity or better. I suppose it is the most situational weapon type. Is that fair to say? Daystar is amazeballs for the fights against undead opponents but doesn't really help you much against regular Joe Shmoe the übermensch. I really wish Adjatha The Drinker was a +3 sword. It'd be sooooo good.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    I'd say that you definitely hit the nail right on the head there. I remember my last play through I used my cavalier tanking until I killed Firkragg and my paladin had I think 3-4 Longswords in her inventory to switch out based on the fight.

    And now I just considered the insanity that a dual wielding Longsword/Mace Undead Hunter would have with Daystar and Mace of Disruption +2. Also I thought Daystar was +3 or was it only +3 for purposes of hitting undead?
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    @Dragonspear
    Daystar is a +2 sword, +4 when hitting evil opponents, double damage against undead.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @Iansounet
    I need to stop trusting my memory and start looking all this stuff up again.

    I hope that means Daystar can hurt Kagaxx in BG2EE since it doesn't atm.
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    Maybe if they include BG2Fixpack stuff. In vanilla game its enchantment is 2, which is why it doesn't hurt Kangaxx/demons, fixpack makes that a 4 so it can hit most things
  • Doom972Doom972 Member Posts: 150
    Human Fighter/Conjurer makes for a much better character. Having 6 levels in Fighter is enough, since you can get a weapon specialization by then and you have a lot of health. Too bad that in BG2 only the initial class can be a kit, and since mage specialists became kits, you can't use that combination anymore.
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054

    @Iansounet
    I need to stop trusting my memory and start looking all this stuff up again.

    I hope that means Daystar can hurt Kagaxx in BG2EE since it doesn't atm.

    It's been a while but fairly sure old'floaty head needs a +5 weapon to be repeatedly battered against him to take him down.
  • raywindraywind Member Posts: 289
    +4 is enough for every monster in game
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    *Checks internet*

    Right you are - then I guess the Daystar needs fixing in BG2EE.
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