Few more questions :)
odessa333
Member Posts: 59
Hey all!
I was pondering a few things, and wanted to pester....er...ask the board for opinions/thoughts.
1. For the BG:EE do we know what the exp cap will be? Is it still the same as BG or not?
2. I'm going to come out and ask, but what's the big deal on human's dual classing? It also seemed "eh" to me, but since I actually started using this thing called the internet to do research, a lot of people seem to rate it highly, especially the fighter/mage option. Which i admit, I'm not sure I understand. I mean, aren't you essentially getting one person to be a low leveled fighter and mage? Wouldn't a straight up mage or fighter be stronger in the long run? What am I missing here?
3. How do others go about making characters? By this I mean, do you use 'dump stats' reducing say, wisdom, to a 3 or so, or do you tend to favor a more balanced approach? I tend to be more balanced, I think, but I was curious to how others did it.
4. What's the most 'god like' roll you've ever seen? Since dusting off my old copy of BG to familiarize myself with it again, the highest I've seen so far is 18/18/18/18/8/8.
To try and avoid making too many topics, I'll try to ask my questions here if I find more. Thanks!
I was pondering a few things, and wanted to pester....er...ask the board for opinions/thoughts.
1. For the BG:EE do we know what the exp cap will be? Is it still the same as BG or not?
2. I'm going to come out and ask, but what's the big deal on human's dual classing? It also seemed "eh" to me, but since I actually started using this thing called the internet to do research, a lot of people seem to rate it highly, especially the fighter/mage option. Which i admit, I'm not sure I understand. I mean, aren't you essentially getting one person to be a low leveled fighter and mage? Wouldn't a straight up mage or fighter be stronger in the long run? What am I missing here?
3. How do others go about making characters? By this I mean, do you use 'dump stats' reducing say, wisdom, to a 3 or so, or do you tend to favor a more balanced approach? I tend to be more balanced, I think, but I was curious to how others did it.
4. What's the most 'god like' roll you've ever seen? Since dusting off my old copy of BG to familiarize myself with it again, the highest I've seen so far is 18/18/18/18/8/8.
To try and avoid making too many topics, I'll try to ask my questions here if I find more. Thanks!
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Comments
Not entirely clear yet I believe. I've heard reports from the devs that they want to up it a little to make the new quests and areas a little more useful (since most people hit the cap from normal BG long before the end) but I've also heard that they want to respect the limits set by the original developers.
We'll see.
2. I'm going to come out and ask, but what's the big deal on human's dual classing? It also seemed "eh" to me, but since I actually started using this thing called the internet to do research, a lot of people seem to rate it highly, especially the fighter/mage option. Which i admit, I'm not sure I understand. I mean, aren't you essentially getting one person to be a low leveled fighter and mage? Wouldn't a straight up mage or fighter be stronger in the long run? What am I missing here?
It really depends on when you do it. At level 9, you can be Grand Master in one weapon as a fighter, and you need 250.000xp to be level 9. If you dual to a mage then and there, you need 300.000 to get your Fighter levels back (Mage level 10) for a total of 550.000 xp spent on levelling. This is a little more than a level 12 mage needs. So in the end, you're two mage levels behind, but gain nine fighter levels (hitpoints, weapon and armour proficiences, grand mastery in a weapon, etc).
Considering you end up with around 6-7 million XP if you take it easy through the game, half a million 'lost' to another character class won't break your character. The earlier you dual class, the smaller the difference.
Multiclassing takes a heftier penalty, since both classes level up simultaniously, leaving only 3-3.5 million XP per class in the end, which is just above level 20 for most classes, instead of level 9/30 you would reach with a dualclass. You are more powerful in both classes though.
3. How do others go about making characters? By this I mean, do you use 'dump stats' reducing say, wisdom, to a 3 or so, or do you tend to favor a more balanced approach? I tend to be more balanced, I think, but I was curious to how others did it.
I generally go for 8-12 in the stats I don't need, 16-18 in the stats I do need. Whatever I feel is right for the character. My Elven Fighter/Thief had 7 wisdom because I imagined him an impulsive simpleton. My recent paladin had 14 int and 15 wisdom because I imagined her to be more mature and level-headed. It doesn't make a difference in the game, but it's good for in-head roleplaying.
4. What's the most 'god like' roll you've ever seen? Since dusting off my old copy of BG to familiarize myself with it again, the highest I've seen so far is 18/18/18/18/8/8.
No idea. Probably something like that.
2. The strength of dual classing is a combination of two main points. One is that some classes (mainly the physically oriented ones like fighters and thieves) gain useful abilities or strengths during the early levels and then plane out. So with say 5-7 levels in thief you can max lockpicking and trap detection and get some other fairly useful skills, and with 9 fighter levels you get a lot of thac0, a lot of hp and extra attacks.
The other point is that the first couple of levels are so cheap that in the long run they are almost for free. The 40k exp needed to bring a thief to level 7 or 250k exp to to bring a warrior to level 9 is unlikely to even set you back a single level on your other class once you progress through BG2.
When you combine these points, dual classing enables you to get many of the main strengths from a class and then switch it off exp-wise, so that you don't have to keep funneling exp into a class that gives more and more diminishing returns as you reach higher levels. The common practice is obviously to start with a class that is strong early on, and switch to a class with more long-term power potential, such as a caster.
A fighter/mage is also in many ways stronger than a pure fighter or a pure mage since the classes synergize so well with each other. The warrior levels provide health, thac0 and attacks, while the mage levels provide many buffs that while useful on a mage are extremely powerful on a warrior, like stoneskin, mirror image, blur, etc. In other words this combines the extremely effective mage defense with the normally solid warrior offense, creating a whole in some ways greater than the sum of its parts. This peaks out in the famous kensai/mage combination, where the main drawback of the kensai (not being able to wear armour) is offset by mages not being able to wear armour anyway, and bringing enough defensive buffs to make up for it.
A mage will become extremely powerful in the late game, with chain contingencies, time stops, imp alacrity etc - but like we have already covered, since levels are so cheap in the beginning and so expensive later on, by the time a pure class mage reaches those extreme-power levels, a mage with 9 fighter levels will be very close to them as well.
3. Always go with a balanced approach, I'd never want to play someone with 3 wisdom/charisma, etc, even if it has very little actual effect inside the game.
4. Not sure, probably around 92-93 total.. I never spend a lot of time rolling; if I have a character concept in mind that requires very high stats I will just edit them in.
A level 13 fighter has the maximum number of attacks he will ever get, a decent thac0, the majority of his HP and most of the proficiencies he will ever need. If he duals to a mage then his HLAs become less relevant too, as mage protections such as Stoneskin, Mirror Image and Protection from Magical Weapons trump Hardiness, and Improved Haste replaces Greater Whirlwind (though he misses Critical Strike). In addition he has all those high powered mage spells. A level 13 fighter requires 1.25m exp, while a mage does not improve at all (beyond 1 HP / level) beyond level 27, 6.375m exp, allowing the dual class character to reach the 'cap'.
In BG1, an early dual to a mage will simply be a mage character that's a lot less squishy, and able to use more equipment. A single class fighter can reach level 8 under the TotSC exp cap, a mage 9, a F->M 7/8. Therefore, you aren't giving up that much.
Saying that, duals which result in greater endgame power are more boring to play as they result in longer downtime for the first class.
5. Assuming the exp cap is raised (or modded to be raised) what monsters give enough experience to raise a character to levels of 20, 30, 40? I mean, that would be a LOT of diseases gibberings, you know?
6. Thinking of experience, what are the 'most powerful foes' people aim for, or is that just me? I try to make sure all my characters have at least one notable kill for the record in the bio page. Does anyone know a list of what are say, the top 20 monsters/enemies considered the 'most powerful' in BG 1 and 2?
7. Just to double check on this, is there any penalty for having a warrior/barbarian type class with low intelligence and/or wisdom? I tend to think everyone benefits from Con (for HP), Dex (AC), Str (Carry more), Cha (better reactions), but what benefits, if any, do pure warriors get from intelligence and wisdom? From the manual, it looks like their lore skill will suffer, but that's not the biggest of loses. Am I missing anything else?
8. Thief questions. I'm new to the BG:2 mechanics, so what is the difference with move silently and hide in shadows for the purpose of the game? How big a role does detect illusions make?
I gotta run, but any help is appreciated!
6. Not really. A good bet would be the various bosses in the TotSC content: Aec'Letec, Death Knight, greater wolfwere, the wyverns in Durlag's Tower, etc. I think Tazok and the Doomsayer rank fairly high as well.
7. You'll die a lot faster from illithid attacks, but that's not an issue in BG1.
8. They're combined when you use your stealth ability - (hide in shadows + move silently)/2 - so they're equally important.
Detect illusion is potentially very powerful and often underused - at high enough skill it functions a lot like true seeing, dispelling hostile players' illusions such as mirror image, invisibility, shadow door, mislead, etc. The only drawback is that it functions like trap detection; it takes awhile to activate and the thief can't do any other action while detecting.
Dext 18
Const 18
Int 3
Wisd 13
Char 18
...for a Paladin.
While I've probably rolled even better all around stats (I seem to remember getting 18s in everything but int. once), this was a rare time when I rolled such great stats while getting as high as 18/00 str.
for stats, i try to max out primary (for my class) and then balance everything else. maybe max out something else as well if i have the patience.
best roll i've ever seen? after adjustments it was 18/92, 18, 15, 18, 18, 7
After a computer crash and my wonderful wedding shower, I am back with more questions, baby!
10. On duel classing Imoen. If I recall right, the best time is right after she hits level 7, but I don't recall "why" that is the best. Does she get all of her mage levels then, is that it? I think that would be important, but I don't remember 100%. Can anyone give clarification?
11. Continued from above: assuming Imoen is dual classed at seven, how hard is it leveling her back up....i think she gets/needs level 8 in mage in get her thief skills back? I've never dual classed, and the thought intrigues and frightens me at the same time.
12. On thief skills: I remember reading that armor restricts thieving skills, and there was at one point a chart on this. Any one know what the breakdown is? Also, do the penalties apply to the armor of shadows and such armors geared to thieves?
13. Do the skills move silently and hide in shadows give any bonuses/benefits, besides the obvious ability of backstabbing? If one was a swashbuckler and couldn't backstab, do these skills have any use or could a potion/spell of invisibility replace them both without worry?
14. If my notes are right, you can only get potions of thievery inside Baldur's gate and Durlag's tower. Since Baldur's gate is off limits at the beginning, how accessible are the potions in the tower? I don't remember where the shop is, and was wondering if I could stock up here for the early part of the game.
Dual classing her at level 4 gets you an additional thief proficiency point. Waiting until level 5 gets you the backstab x3 damage bonus. Waiting until level 7 only nets you additional thieving skills (which you probably won't need) and extra hit dice.
11. You have it correct. You need 8 mage levels, which is 90k xp. Experience-wise, this is roughly one third of BG1+TotSC, so it's a significant amount of the gametime spent without her thief abilities.
12. There are no penalties (except for armours that specifically list them, e.g. hide armour iirc), but rather when you equip armour heavier than studded leather (i.e. not the shadow armour etc) your thief abilities will be disabled until you remove it again. This only becomes an issue for thieves if you dual/multiclass them into a class that can use heavier armours, or after getting the Use Any Item HLA.
13. You can backstab out of invisibility as well, so there isn't a lot of differences. I believe some forms of detection work differently for invisibility and stealth, though. But no, if you don't have backstab and feel ok with using invisibility potions for scouting, there's generally not a lot of use to those skills.
14. I distinctly recall getting those potions earlier than that, but then I also use a lot of mods. At any rate, Durlag's Tower is a very difficult place compared to most areas in the game, so tread cautiously.
As for Imoen, I am thinking of getting me a good team together (Self as Fighter/Cleric, Imoen, Ajantis, Mincs, Dynaheir) and doing quests/nashkel mines with Imoen as a thief. Then when Imoen is ready to duel (I keep thinking level 7) I'll go pick up Coran in the cloakwood, and use him as my thief until her skills come back. Hit the rest of the quests, finish the mines, etc. And with any luck have her thief skills back in time to do Baldur's gate pilfering with Coran. I don't want to duel too early, as I want her to have good thief skills, or what's the point? I ju
15. The problem with this is I'm not sure how Coran will level up without me guiding him... is there any information out there on what characters do with their points? I'm mostly interested in the thief skills of Coran and Tiax (for my evil team) but I'll take what I can get.
A couple of answers to your questions on dual-classing.
First, I believe the main reason why Imoen is dualled over so early is simply "canon." People will often play the game intentionally in a way that it merges as seamlessly as possible into BG2. Since Imoen starts BG2 as a level 7 thief -> level 8 mage, people try to mimic that.
It can be a bit of a challenge to dual her that way, but it's not incredibly difficult. I did it in my game, I believe without having to access much ToTSC content. The problem is, of course, that the places that give the most experience often tend to be the places that most require a thief.
It also requires a bit of planning ahead. First, you have to remember that when you first dual-class her, Imoen isn't going to be very useful at all. She loses everything about her that has to do with being a thief. So all you're left with is a mage with a bunch of HP and one spell slot. Hooray.
The good news is that the later it happens in the game, the easier (and faster) it is to make up those levels. To expect Imoen to be at around level 3 within an hour of dual-classing is not unreasonable at all. However, it does mean that one of your party members will be taking a short term power hit and functionality loss, so keep that in mind when you work out your timing.
Second, she also (temporarily) loses the ability to use thief items. This is just good to keep in mind - make sure you have enough inventory slots when you make the switch.
On a sidenote, I also think they should have made Nalia a lvl 5 swashbuckler. That way she would have had a different feel from Imoen from a tactic point of view, maybe dualwielding later on in the game.
For laughs, here's some more questions for thought/discussion:
16. What's your strategy for gold in this game? Sure by the end of it you're tripping over gold pieces, but at the start? There's all those magical items for sale (and can't steal! grrr....) and gold has always seemed hard to come by, at least to me. What are your tricks to earning cash?
17. A follow up to 16: once you get said cash, what do you buy first? Stalk up on potions, spells, magic weapons, armor? What are the 'must buys' for your group?
18. Weapons. How do you split up weapons for your group? I've used two handed swords and bows nearly exclusively for my warriors, with slings and war hammers for the clerics/mages. I keep saying I'm going to try to change that, try something new, etc, but then never do. For EE, I AM going to change that, so I'm thinking of trying some new things out. I guess I'm just looking for ideas of how to do this without making a mess of things lol. Any ideas?
[Spoiler]The quest for the cleric South of High Hedge is 5000g.[/Spoiler]
Most important for me however is doing quests that I know give me reputation boosts. If you can get to 18 or 20 Rep and have 18-20 charisma then formerly really expensive things get rather cheap.
Reputation Spoilers:
[Spoiler]
Joia +1
Cleric above +1
Melicamp the talking chicken +1 if he survives
Orgillions on the second map south of Beregost (same map that Drizzt is on) you can get another one for clearing out the Ogrillions +1
Returning the letter found on an Ogrillion body on the main path south of Beregost +1
Rescuing the Kid at the Lighthouse +1
Returning the Crazy Captain to Helm +1
I also think you get +1 for turning in Prism's Bounty
Talking down Marl +1
[/Spoiler]
Charisma Spoiler
[Spoiler]
Cloak you can pickpocket in Beregost gives you +2 Charisma
Friends spell gives you +6.
Rumor is Charisma caps out its affect on shop keepers at 20
[/Spoiler]
17. I buy scrolls I know I'm going to use and don't want to wait on. Web is usually really high on my list. But primarily I try to save for items I know I'll need. Full Plate Mail or Robe of the Good/Neutral Arch Magi are the two items I tend to squirrel away for the most. Honorable mention goes to Composite Longbow +1. When I play my halfling assassin I'll be saving (and stealing) Shadow Armor, Dagger of Venom and Light Crossbow of Speed.
18. I try to spread out the proficiency as much as possible to maximize my use of items. This is especially true in Baldur's Gate 2.