Anyone play NWN OC with a sorcerer?

Wandering_Minstrel

I just finished NWN OC last night with a sorcerer for the first time. The problem I had in the final area though was that I ran out of spells before the final fight. If it weren't for the various elemental bolts and staff there was no way I could have finished the game. You cannot rest anywhere in the final area which sucks for spell casters. Which is one reason why I prefer warriors. I also prefer games where you can drink potions to refill your mana so you do not run out of spells during a battle. Anyone have a strategy on how to finish the final area with a sorcerer (or wizard)?

BelgarathMTH

I haven't played the final battle in a long time, and I haven't gotten there yet on my current run, since I've restarted with three different characters who are only in Act II.

With my wizard character, (and I'd do the same with a sorcerer), I never depend on damage spells. They get resisted, and saved against, and you can never cast enough of them before running out.

I rely instead on my vast repertoire of defensive magic and summons. I prioritize keeping them and my henchman (usually Daelan Red Tiger with a mage) well defended with Mage Armor, stat buffs, and Stoneskins, preferably cast with the Extended Spell feat.

You'd be surprised how well a defensively buffed mage can do in melee combat in NWN. Sure, it's only one attack per round at a low BAB, but your melee attack never runs out on you, and with the right gear and enhancement buffing, it can pack quite a wallop. Meanwhile, if they can't hit you, they can't hurt you, so you've got a *lot* of rounds to gradually wear them down.

By the final battle, you should be able to summon a very high hit-dice elemental through the Animal Summoning chain of spells, unless you neglected summons in your sorcerer build.

You may be learning the hard way how relatively weak attack magic can be in NWN compared to other strategies. An attack magic build can work, but you need lots of metamagic feats and a strong sense of conservation of spell energy. Never use a spell when a henchman and a big stick will do. Heck, you can just sit out most battles and let your flunkies win it for you without your having to lift a finger.

The strategy I'm advocating does require you to take some healing skill and carry plenty of healing kits, because you will frequently need to walk up behind one of your minions and heal them during combat. The nice thing about healing skill with healing kits is that using the skill and a kit doesn't provoke any attacks of opportunity, and the healing will take place in one round without chance of interruption.

Anyway, I'm sorry if that doesn't help much with where you are now. I'm sure some NWN spellcaster build experts will come around soon and give you some more practical advice.

You might also try asking around over at the Bioware Neverwinter Nights OC forum. Those guys and gals that still post there are the most masterful experts on the game anywhere on the internet.

http://forum.bioware.com/forum/183-official-campaign/

Belanos

Yeah, I played a Sorcerer, he really kicked butt too. Though I had other classes thrown in as well. If you were to add some Eldritch Knight levels, then you wouldn't be as dependant on your spells. Keep in mind that you get that special sword to use, which is not restricted to any class. So when your spells ran out, you could have been using that.

BelgarathMTH

@Belanos , I'm pretty sure you're thinking about NWN2. The Eldritch Knight prestige class doesn't exist in NWN1, and there is no "special sword" at the end.

Belanos

BelgarathMTH said:

@Belanos , I'm pretty sure you're thinking about NWN2. The Eldritch Knight prestige class doesn't exist in NWN1, and there is no "special sword" at the end.

Ah right. I was indeed thinking of NWN2. Sorcerers really rock in that version, especially combined with Eldritch Knight.

the_spyder

BelgarathMTH said:

Never use a spell when a henchman and a big stick will do. Heck, you can just sit out most battles and let your flunkies win it for you without your having to lift a finger.

This was the hardest lesson I had to learn in playing some of the more recent D&D games. I really dislike limited use scenarios despite Wizards being my favorite class and D&D being the game I have spent the most time with over the years.

Another strategy is wands/staves. I know that in ToEE, I was always making wands for my wizard who would then rely upon them and save up 'The big guns' for the toughest battle.

My recollection of the final battle in NWN OC was pretty much as @BelgarathMTH said. Let your henchmen fight it out with you throwing in the occasional defensive or support spell. That and summonables.

shawne

Take Grimgnaw with you at the end, he'll wipe out half the room while you're still casting your first few spells

scriver

In 3.5, attack magic is a lot less useful than previous editions, because they decided to up the HP gain of everything but still keeping the same damage numbers from 2nd Ed. The reason casters are considered so ridiculously powerful in 3.5 is not their ability to fling fireballs around but their ability to buff up and throw themselves into the fray with their +7 Keen sword and +16 AC magicked up wizard robe (for Clerics there's even a ridiculous buff that ups their STR and gives them the Fighter BAB), outperforming actual warrior classes by far.

Well, that, and because of all the other powerful stuff spells could allow them to do (greater versatility = greater power). Point is direct damage spells are not what you should be going for if you want to do actual damage.

the_spyder

scriver said:

In 3.5, attack magic is a lot less useful than previous editions, because they decided to up the HP gain of everything but still keeping the same damage numbers from 2nd Ed. The reason casters are considered so ridiculously powerful in 3.5 is not their ability to fling fireballs around but their ability to buff up and throw themselves into the fray with their +7 Keen sword and +16 AC magicked up wizard robe (for Clerics there's even a ridiculous buff that ups their STR and gives them the Fighter BAB), outperforming actual warrior classes by far.

Well, that, and because of all the other powerful stuff spells could allow them to do (greater versatility = greater power). Point is direct damage spells are not what you should be going for if you want to do actual damage.

On the flip side, limited uses are the bane of a caster's existence. I played on a moderate persistent world for a while where there was easy access to healing potions. Throw in rest timers and magic that strips buffs upon entering town and all of the sudden fighters are back on top. I could game all afternoon with my Ranger, ending endless hoards of monsters. My Wizard had to retreat to town about every 20 minutes or so and could not finish so much as a single quest without serious tank support.

BelgarathMTH

@the_spyder , That's why I don't like to play user content created by DM's with strict ideas about resting. It's very prejudicial against casters of all stripes, especially in NWN, where there is very limited "teamwork" or control over your maximum of one or two henchmen tactically, at least in single player mode.

One of my favorite user-created campaigns is Savant's "Saga of Aielund", but I chafe under his resting rules - every four in-game hours max, in very limited locations, unless you can find an appropriate room at an inn.

I've downloaded and started playing campaigns where the DM was so draconian as to only allow one rest per every 24 hours in-game. As soon as I figure out what they've done with resting rules and in-game clock time, I usually stop playing those campaigns immediately.

I've also tried some campaigns where the DM set the in-game clock to run at an extremely fast speed, double or triple the default setting, specifically done to nerf the durations of all buffs.

Some DM's seem to really hate casters, and want everybody to be a melee fighter.

the_spyder

@BelgarathMTH - agreed. I think that in some cases, the perception is that wizards are so excessively over powered that they HAVE to do something to limit them. Then they fall foul of going so far in the opposite direction that they don't see how much they are hurting particularly pure class casters.

I am not sure if that is an artifact of 3E (and by extension 3.5E) and the ability to mix and match all types of classes or not, but in most of the Persistent worlds that I've played in NWN2, EVERYONE is multi-class. Okay, give everyone the option to be who they want. But it makes it EXTREMELY difficult to "Balance" (if there were justice in the world, that would be a four letter word) such that making it fair and reasonable for some classes doesn't totally bork others.

But gonna get down off of my soap box now. No one's listening and I simply don't play on those Persistent worlds anymore.

Wandering_Minstrel

This was my sorcerer in the end of the game. He was almost at level 17. Had the pixie as his familiar for thieving skills and Daelan Red Tiger as his henchman. Final spell list:
level one - protection from alignment, magic missile, negative energy ray, ray of enfeeblement and grease
level two - melf's acid arrow, ghostly visage, see invisibility, bull's strength and endurance
level three - fireball, flame arrow, haste and negative energy burst
level four - ice storm, isaac's lesser missile storm, stoneskin and improved invisibility
level five - cone of cold, energy buffer, cloudkill and lesser mind blank
level six - chain lightning, greater spell breach and greater stoneskin
level seven - prismatic spray and shadow shield
level eight - horrid wilting

feats - combat casting, empower spell, greater spell penetration, maximise spell, spell focus (evocation), toughness.

I put all my skill points in concentration, spellcraft, lore and persuade.
I had more than enough charisma gear to reach 32.
I loaded an area near the end and bought some wands and scrolls (too lazy to use most of them at the final battle). The second time I went through the final battle Daelan was still doing 90% of the action.

I don't know if any of you have played the Quest for Glory games or not but in those games (which are solo games, not party games) the wizard has plenty of spell power because of potions. No worries about running out of magic unless I have no mana potions with me (the BG Dark Alliance games are like that too).

I want to start a new game with a new PC in SOU and bring him into HOTU but I am not sure what class I will do yet. I have already played a fighter and paladin / COT. Any suggestions are welcome. I do have a preference for single class (eic classes are fine too) PCs. I want a PC that will complement the henchmen in SOU and HOTU. I was thinking about using the tiefling fighter / WM in chapters two and three of HOTU since I have never used him before.

In the meantime I am playing a fighter in my v 1.10 game of NWN. I hear that you can reach level 20 in the original version. Only complaint I have is the camera angle does not go very high (I play in the drive camera mode). I still have much to do in chapter two and already I am at level 13.

Wandering_Minstrel

Also, I think the lizard creatures (lizardmen ancestors?) in the last areas of the game seem to be immune to most forms of magic. I believe I used greater spell breach on them too.

BelgarathMTH

@Jepatrienosaksen , it looks like you might not have had enough buffs to cover both yourself and Red Tiger. Red Tiger needed a Stoneskin, and a Mage Armor, and as many stat buffs as you could throw at him, especially Bull's Strength, Endurance, and Cat's Grace.

The pixie is worthless in combat. I get that you wanted her search and disarm skill, but there are other ways to deal with traps for a creative sorcerer.

I always take a panther, which gets three attacks per round and sneak attacks right from level one. But then, I also cross-train search and disarm traps. Wizards have a huge advantage over sorcerers there, because of their high intelligence.

I see that your spell list is woefully lacking in summons. As a sorcerer, you can switch out Animal Summoning chain spells at every even numbered level, in order to wind up with a maxed-out elemental. You can also get all kinds of other fantastic summons, such as a Mordenkainen's Sword.

If you were playing on Core Rules, then all of those AoE spells were bad decisions - you're as likely to kill Red Tiger and your pixie as the enemy.

Negative Energy Ray and Negative Energy Burst are very, very weak attack spells, almost useless most of the time.

So, I think your main problem may have been that your spell selections are a good bit less than ideal.

Spamming attack magic just isn't what casters do in most D&D games. The whole gaming system (as far as its Vancian magic) is based on limited access to spell slots. D&D games are a whole different animal than Diablo-style games.