Red Dragon Disciple rebalancing

nysi

Hello,

I've started my first mod, in order to slightly rework the Dragon Disciple kit
I've seen a lot of dicussion about this class, a lot of idea, but no mod.

The idea is to make the kit a little more useful in endgame over a regular sorcerer, and much closer to NWN version.
I really enjoy this addition to BGEE, but think it can be tweaked a little without being unbalanced.

Already working :

- Allow dragon disciple to gain 2 Hp / level after level 10 instead of 1

This change will do nothinh in BG1, and only provide something like 10 hp in soa. It feel more in line with the 1d6 hit dice of the kits, in my opinion.

- Allow the bonus armor class to be gain after level20 (Every 5 level)

This will only be useful in TOB, and allow to ean 2 armor class. Not very strong, but I like to keep the "dragon power increasing" feeling of the kit during the whole game.

The two other component on which I'm working are :

- I'm working on improving the dragon breath. and let its damage increase after lv18 (Every 3 level). But for the moment, it seem to be not working.

I don't think this change will make the dragon disciple too powerfull, if we keep the limit to dragon breath to one per day.

- I tried to change the constitution bonus for Dragon Disciple and allow them to use the bonus used by warrior class, but this settings seem hardcoded.

This change would allow dragon disciple +2 CON bonus to be more useful, and give it more sense.
If someone know how I can change that, I'd be grateful.
I know that HPCLASS.2DA and HPCONBON.2da change the CON bonus, but I do not know how to link the dragondisciple kit to the WARRIOR attribute in HPCONBON.2da.

- I would also like to add a "Claw and bite" attack. Like monk, but not as stronger (less attack per round). I failed to understand how monk gain their fist attack.

I'm also interrested on idea about other tweak for BG1/SOA if they're not to strong.

When BG1/SOA tweak will be finished, I will work on specific HLA.

The HLA for Dragon disciple will focus on dragon power, and allow the kit to complete a transformation into half-dragon

The dragon disciple will first have to chose some prerequisite :
- Dragon scale : +4 armor bonus
- Dragon endurance ! +2 CON
- Dragon strenght : +2 Strengh
- Dragon wings : Increase movement speed
- Dragon mastery : Change proeficiencies and allow to use two handed swords

When all those HLA has been chosen, transformation into half dragon HLA is unlocked

Other HLA when half-dragon form has been unlocked could be :

- Dragon breath mastery : Allow another use of Dragon breath per day (Can be chose several time)
- Wing buffer : Smaller version of the dragon ability


Those HLA would transformer the dragon disciple, into a half dragon caster and melee fighter, but it will loose the normal HLA mage/sorcerer would gain.

GrimLefourbe

Sounds interesting.

I can test it for you when you need.

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nysi

yes, I'm affraid CON bonus and monk unarmed fist cannot be modded.

I will upload the mod when ready for some testing.
About a Wyvern form, i'm not very fond of it because Wyvern are not Dragon. I may be wrong, but I believe DD are not becoming dragon in any rules of the Dungeon and Dragon edition. They can become half dragon however.

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Kamigoroshi

subtledoctor said:

To be honest, I never understood this kit. How are traces of dragon blood related to sorcerers? Dragons aren't sorcerers to my knowledge - those that cast wizard spells do so like a normal mage. This "Dragon Disciple" idea is a late-era invention that is completely out of left field, not based on any lore related to the FR setting, and imho not very well thought-out.

True dragons do not learn spells like wizards do. They have innate spell-like abilities, not unlike outsiders. Sorcerers use their blood as a medium in order to trace back lineages of power within their family tree. I view it as something akin to an arcane variant of DNA string. It may be more dormant than say, in the case of Genasi or Tieflings. But if properly strengthened, the ancient blood will even surpress the human/demi-human side. In the case of the Dragon Desciple, the sorcerer's type changes to "Dragon". Well, it would be more precise to say a player receives the Half-Dragon template for free here. That's the whole point of transformational prestige classes like this after all.

There's also an epic progression of the Dragon Desciple on the WotC's website. Basically, the Dragon Deciple grows a tail, becomes bigger with each couple of levels and finally becomes a dragon in the truest sense of the word.

subtledoctor said:

What would be much more interesting, to me, would be to just let the sorcerer be the sorcerer, and completely re-make the DD as a *monk* kit.

Already been done. Even officially published by WotC, in fact. The Initiate of Draconic Mysteries prestige class is precisely a Monk with claws, frightful presence and has even shapeshift abilities to transform into a dragon. You can even play as one with the PRC mod in NwN.

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GrimLefourbe

You should check out the Staff of Dragon Power + 5 from More Styles for Mages, it adds a half dragon form to Dragon Disciples. Could give you ideas though maybe you should talk a bit with @Pecca if you're going to sort of further his work on Dragon Disciples.

Seathtsb

unfortunately I'm years late but your idea is very very very interesting and intoxicating dude