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Recent Dungeons & Dragons editions: Why all the hate?

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  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Squire - I agree that they could have handled the whole AC thing better. The more skilled you got, the harder you are to hit. But then the whole Plate armor makes you harder to hit is a bit flawed as well. It doesn't. It makes you harder to DAMAGE, but that's a whole other argument.

    At the end of the day, I say negative things about 3E, but I still like the system. I don't want anyone to get me wrong on that score. I like 2E better, no doubt, but I don't dislike 3E. I've logged more hours in NWN2 playing 3E than any other single game including BG. Nor am I saying that I could come up with a better system when all is said and done. Just that some stuff struck me as 'not how I would have done it'.

    I actually have given some thought to making my own system. I'd do stuff like make armor give damage resistance instead of making you harder to hit etc... I'd also make STAT bonuses Multi-stat bonuses such that STR and CON would be necessary to make you heartier. INT and DEX would make you harder to hit (you can be nimble, but if you are dumb about it??). And I'd give tangible negatives for Dump stats. But then if I ruled the world? Ha ha....

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    There's always plenty of things that could be tweaked, many of which I have tweaked when I DM, but by and large I think the 2E rules hold together pretty well.
    One thought about a higher level character's skill at arms, I've always allowed "Self Defense" as a profiency that just takes one off the Armor Class in any non-surprise situation. Proficienies are hard enough to come by, I let them stack infinitely too. Basically it gives high level warriors something to use their proficiencies for, other than a weapon they never have and never will use.
    It's a trivial bonus, but at least it's marginally useful. And I like the idea of having little things that benefit the highly experienced.
    I would think it could be implemented in an I.E. Game too. But I'm no programmer...

    the_spyder
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I feel the need to point out that in 5e, there's a cap of 20 on all ability scores. So even if you start with a Strength of 18 at level 1, by level 20 you'll only ever be able to increase that total by two points. It means you can indeed still have extraordinary characters, even at level 1. The growth chart just means that characters who really work hard can also achieve greatness for themselves. The characters who started out great in one area can then grow in others, becoming more well-rounded.

    VallmyrShapiroKeatsDarkMageNonnahswriterJuliusBorisov
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Dee - that makes a bit more sense. I'm not married to the number 18, but it did make sense in tying things back to the old 3D6. I've heard some good things about 5E, so maybe this is another one.

    :smiley:

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,445
    edited October 2015
    I think 5e's stat system is perfect. You have stat bonuses like in 3e but you cannot increase a stat over 20 (without magic items).

    I prefer Pathfinder for other reasons, but I think 5e has some wonderful ideas, I just want to see more content for it.

    Edit: I derped and didn't see there was a page two and so my statement has already been stated. My bad. XD

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    One small gripe I'd have about IE implimentation.
    Any +1 to an 18 anything Strength becomes 19. I'd call that munchkin.
    +1 to an 18 Strength should be 18/01. Another +1 would be 18/51.
    The only way to get a 19 strength should be from an 18/00.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @atcDave - Are you talking about Tomes and the other monkey business like Lum's machine and whatnot? In that case, agreed.

    I think there should be a logical upper max for "Human" or "Mortal" stats simply so that there is an obvious jump to giants and Titans and Gods. I'd go even further and saying that the closer you get to the max, the harder it is to advance. If it takes one 'Stat' bonus to go from 11 to 12, it should cost 2-3 to get from 17-18. As you approach 'Perfection' it is an increasingly tougher slope to climb.

    Whatever that limit is, I would want there to be hard and fast with magic being the only way around it. That's WHY we have a magic realm.

    But then I've never been one who ever wanted a maxed out stat character.

    atcDave
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    Dee said:

    I feel the need to point out that in 5e, there's a cap of 20 on all ability scores. So even if you start with a Strength of 18 at level 1, by level 20 you'll only ever be able to increase that total by two points. It means you can indeed still have extraordinary characters, even at level 1. The growth chart just means that characters who really work hard can also achieve greatness for themselves. The characters who started out great in one area can then grow in others, becoming more well-rounded.

    And the monsters have a cap of 30. I wish WOTC would make more stuff with 5th edition after the whole ''Rage of Demons'' thing is done.

  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428

    @Dee - that makes a bit more sense. I'm not married to the number 18, but it did make sense in tying things back to the old 3D6. I've heard some good things about 5E, so maybe this is another one.

    :smiley:

    Its pretty good. Don't listen to Spoony's review.

    Dee
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    @the_spyder yes exactly. I think there was something in the book (maybe 1E?) about wishes, tomes and other such things that had bonuses only giving 1/10th of a point above 18.
    I also remember one DM I played with had an interesting (and sometimes painful!) house rule that critical misses from a character using a Girdle of Giant Strength had a chance of seriously injuring the user! Made you think twice about if you even wanted the thing!

    the_spyder
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    @Dee - that makes a bit more sense. I'm not married to the number 18, but it did make sense in tying things back to the old 3D6. I've heard some good things about 5E, so maybe this is another one.

    :smiley:

    Its pretty good. Don't listen to Spoony's review.
    A thousand times this. Spoony's review of 5e was deeply upsetting to me, because he seemed to be reaching really hard for his criticisms.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    atcDave said:

    @the_spyder yes exactly. I think there was something in the book (maybe 1E?) about wishes, tomes and other such things that had bonuses only giving 1/10th of a point above 18.
    I also remember one DM I played with had an interesting (and sometimes painful!) house rule that critical misses from a character using a Girdle of Giant Strength had a chance of seriously injuring the user! Made you think twice about if you even wanted the thing!

    I vaguely remember something similar.

    It's funny you should mention about the Girdle. In a campaign that I joined for a brief time, there was this cleric who had a Girdle of Giant strength on when he got involved in a bar brawl. Apparently, because of the excessive strength, the cleric went in unarmed. He never the less ended up killing a 'civilian' in the fight and had to pay some pretty heavy penance to his deity as a result. Just goes to show that one should be very careful when playing around with powerful magics.

    I got to thinking about 3E and the discussion earlier about STR. While it is true that there is progression, it seems to me that something is broken when the highest strength a 1st level human can have is 18, yet take a few levels in RDD and spend your Epic points in STR and you can get up to double that or very close to that. That is where I don't like things.

    atcDave
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