Need help with multi-classe ... F/M or F/M/T ... questions
lorderon
Member Posts: 3
Hi all I am new to the forums... been reading since a while and just restarted a game and for my first time and I am going multi-classe...
First of all I always play a human so I removed race restriction for my multi-classe
I have been reading a lot on multi-classe and they are some stuff that i seem to be having problem with...
1 ) My F/M/T have 10 HP when I start the game and I have con 18. But i have read around other forums that people start with 15? I have max HP for everything installed (monster and PC)... so is it normal I have 10 at start ?
2 ) I really want to have my party of 6 for roleplay and all... but the progrssion of my PC is sooooo slow... will i still max at the end of the game ?
3 ) Want are the disadvantage and advantage of being F/M/T instead of F/M ? Do I lose HLA ?
4 ) On a full playthrough is there a BIG difference beetween Dual and Multi by the end game ? If yes, should I start by being fighther and then mage ? I want my PC to be powerful... so that being said...I won' resart the game for a small difference but if it is major I will... want do you think ?
The ultimate goal is FUN and I want that my leader feel a slight OP in regards to my other companions...
That about it... just want to be sure I have the right thing now before i continue...
Thank in advance !
First of all I always play a human so I removed race restriction for my multi-classe
I have been reading a lot on multi-classe and they are some stuff that i seem to be having problem with...
1 ) My F/M/T have 10 HP when I start the game and I have con 18. But i have read around other forums that people start with 15? I have max HP for everything installed (monster and PC)... so is it normal I have 10 at start ?
2 ) I really want to have my party of 6 for roleplay and all... but the progrssion of my PC is sooooo slow... will i still max at the end of the game ?
3 ) Want are the disadvantage and advantage of being F/M/T instead of F/M ? Do I lose HLA ?
4 ) On a full playthrough is there a BIG difference beetween Dual and Multi by the end game ? If yes, should I start by being fighther and then mage ? I want my PC to be powerful... so that being said...I won' resart the game for a small difference but if it is major I will... want do you think ?
The ultimate goal is FUN and I want that my leader feel a slight OP in regards to my other companions...
That about it... just want to be sure I have the right thing now before i continue...
Thank in advance !
0
Comments
2) Full party is fine with FMT and you can still max out at 8 million xp
3) FMT will never never get the highest level mage spells
4) dual will only get mage HLAs
1) HP gained for each level up with multi-class is calculated as follows: class HP/number of classes + bonus HP/number of classes.
You start with level 1 in each class so: (10+4+6)/3 + 4x3/3 = 20/3 + 12/3 = 6+4 = 10.
Because of the rounding to the inferior I remember you get spoiled of a few HPs on the long run. But they may be recalculation on each level up.
If you invoke a familiar though, you could get as much as 6 more HPs (12/2).
2) Are you considering BG only or BG & BG2? In any case, the XP limit is the same. But keep in mind that a FMT progresses at 1/3 rate of a single class. It's very noticeable so you'd have to be pretty set on what you'd want.
The FMT is very versatile but if you're not using backstabs then it may not be worth taking the Thief class. In BG2, you can get 10 backstabs per round with a combination of items and spells that give more attacks and durable invisibility like Mislead.
3) You mention HLA which is BG2 only.
As a FMT you will gain a maximum of 20 HLA. I think it's on par with other classes. Unfortunately, you will be limited to level 18/17/22 so you won't access level 9 spells and you can only select Mage HLA that gives more spells per day.
FM will get to 24/20. It doesn't seem much more, but you'll progress 1.5 times faster than FMT. Agains it's a very noticeable difference when you're considering the Mage class. Its power increases greatly with each new spell level. Obviously the FM cannot choose Thief HLA. There's only Use Any Items that comes to mind. But really I don't think it's that necessary.
4) Are you talking about dual-class? If so, yes it's also a very good option. But in that case, you should consider it more like a pure Mage but made with a powergaming mind. And you won't get Fighter HLAs anyway unless you dual-class at very high level which I don't recommend. Typical combination is Kensaï>Mage (9/13>30). Berserker is an equally good choice too.
didn't read the title well
The way to think of multiclassing here is only multiclass with Fighter/Mage/Thief if you want the versatility of all 3 in one to save party slots for other sorts of classes while still having a fairly viable character on your own (just with slow progression at the start of BG1). And since you only really need one Thief in a party (outside a useful multiclass NPC Thief like Fighter/Thief), your Fighter/Mage/Thief to avoid redundancy should probably be considered the one Thief of your party, with fighting abilities and spellcasting thrown in to do a bit of everything. Some abilities thrown in together go well, like spellcasting with thieving abilities, fighting abilities with spellcasting, and fighting abilities with Thief backstabbing, but it wouldn't get the progression or focus of say, a dual class where you'd get more powerful spellcasting at the mid & high levels.
For a more focused and more single powerful character, Fighter/Mage multiclass or starting as a Fighter and dualing to Mage would be best, since all in all you wouldn't lose out on much from not having the Thief in there if you thought of having a different one in the party of 6. Imoen who is with you from the start makes a great option to dual class herself as a Thief and has some nice stats, so being a Fighter/Mage/Thief is mainly for freeing up an extra party slot for another NPC that isn't a Thief, or for wanting to be a Fighter/Mage who can backstab.
Dual classing in the long run is considered more powerful, mainly cus you get the high end spells of a Mage with Fighter abilities and Fighter equipment thrown in for almost free. You also get the option of having a Fighter kit when starting as a Fighter and dual classing, which you don't get the option for with multiclassing which is a pretty big thing to take into consideration. Kensai's dual classed into Mage is considered arguably the most powerful dual classing combo you can get, if not the most powerful character you can make since the downsides of being a Kensai are easily covered up by spellcasting of a Mage, and some of the bonuses for a Kensai are given from the start like a permanent +2 bonus to AC. The Cleric/Illusionist or Fighter/Illusionist multiclass combos for the Gnome are good spellcasting multiclasses in comparison, but you're a Human character so you wouldn't get those options.
A compelling multiclass combo could be Swashbuckler Thief kit dual classed into Mage, since a Swashbuckler gets bonuses somewhat similar to a Kensai as they level up while getting some thieving skills to use. You could dual class in the first game as a Swashbuckler and still have some useful thieving skills for the 2nd game, and would still be able to specialize in weapons and get 3 points in dual wielding like a multiclass Fighter/Mage. So it wouldn't be the same as a Fighter but you'd have some similar characteristics, with a few thieving skills you'd get from F/M/T multiclass. With the fast level progression of Thieves, you could dual class at a reasonable level and still get your Thief abilities back in the first game, and not having backstab as a Swashbuckler isn't a huge deal since by the time you dual class the backstab multiplier wouldn't be much of a loss anyway.
What do you guys think of a Figther / Cleric vs a Figther / Mage ? I know it 2 different mix... but what is the most fun/strong ratio by yu're opinions ?
EDIT :
Also I wanted my PC to have a bow and 1 handed weapon proeficient ... would that be good by late game ? Or should I go 2H or dual wield ? I think it would be fun to fire some arrows, then invisble, go melee etc... I don't know...
Early on ranged weapons will be great for your character since to cast spells you can't wear armor (and won't have a good pair of robes to wear for a while). For most rinse & repeat fights you can just wear armor and go in as a Fighter though, and I think you can even use a shield and cast spells at the same time.
If going dual class, you won't be able to use a bow as a Kensai but it's still a powerful combo and you can use throwing weapons like throwing daggers or axes. There are a few ranged Fighter kit mods you can install and try out for dual classing which are similar to the Archer Ranger kit. The Marksman kit and Warsling Sniper kit in the mod forum section of the site could be dual classed into Mage if ranged weapons are your thing, though the Marksman kit is the only one of those two which would be skilled in the bow. A base Fighter dual classed into Mage is a legitimate option too if you want to still use bows well, since Kensai's don't use bows and Berserker's simply don't use ranged weapons well. As for proficiencies with a dual class, start off about the same as a multiclass character but instead of going for points in dual wielding, first go for maxing out your weapon first. Or you could switch out the two points in bow to have those points in dual wield to start, and getting bow later.
Single weapon style is something that can be useful, but generally isn't the fighting style you want to be using for Fighters cus shields in the long run offer much more than the -2 AC bonus two points in single weapon style gives you. Single weapon style only really gives you a slightly higher chance of getting critical hits, which two handed style also gives you so IMO it's more a fighting style for Thieves and Bards due to them not getting to use bigger shields.
To your second question, I'd add that I find dual-wielding to be quite underwhelming in BG where Improved Haste and weapons with attack bonus aren't available. But it prevents ranged weapons which on the contrary are extremely useful.
Thing is if you want to import your character later, you may want him to have two weapons then. In that case, yes, you should still pick it and maybe as suggested stick with weapon/shield/missile in BG1.
As for FC vs FM, I'd pick FM anytime.
Personally, I like the FC a little better, but that's because I prefer to run into melee and whack things over the head as opposed to barraging the battlefield with a bevy of high level spells.
The fighter/mage should focus on melee, because with his buff spells, he can make himself pretty much invulnerable. If you are playing an archer type PC, you should be avoiding melee and having other party members occupy the front line in which case why bother being invulnerable?
The Fighter/Cleric should focus on melee because his only ranged weapon is a sling and the sling fire rate is pretty slow.
Between the two, the Fighter/Cleric is simpler but falls behind the power curve, because this game is based on D&D and in D&D the mage/anything rules, also there be a fair amount of wands and those alone can allow your Fighter/Mage to curb stomp each and every encounter (Except for one, maybe).
Taking this into account, I'd probably favor a dual wielding fighter/mage because I can use wands and spells at range, why bother with arrows. You can also tank up your fighter/mage in armor for some encounters, especially early ones and just play the PC as a fighter. The PC won't be able to cast spells in armor, but he can still use wands and scrolls. If the PC is an elf, you can just equip him with a longbow (without any proficiency in it) and he should still be able to hit most things.
Remember also that when you attack,before or after your weapon swing, you can cast a low level spell (quick casting time on lower level spells) or fire off a wand. This allows your fighter mage to stick a sword in one Ogres gullet while hitting his buddy with a magic missile etc....
The Fighter/Mage/Thief can be kind of neat and fun ,but if I were you I wouldn't want to play one until I knew more about the game.
My recommendation:
Race Elf
Stats STR 18**
DEX 19
Con * (Anything, because my fighter/mages are playing a deadly game)
Int 17/18
Wis *
ChA *
Longsword **
Two Weapon Fighting **
P.S. Welcome to the fabulous world of Gishes!
Ranged weapons are still more useful in the first game than the second, but it just mainly depends on if you're dual classing or multiclassing. Multiclassing forces you to spread your skill points out a bit more with specialization as the max you can do with weapon skills, so with that your decision is a bit easier which to go with first. Dual classing though means you could achieve grandmastery in your chosen melee weapon before dual classing, so your choice of dual wielding or having bow specialization is a more specialized choice. Using a one handed weapon and shield is still a legit option in BG1, but dishing out big loads of damage with dual wielding is great, and there's a Strength spell Mages get which can raise a character's Strength temporarily.
If going something less than 18 Strength, then dual wielding doesn't do as much with just +1 bonus to damage and ranged weapons would do much better. However if going with 18 Strength, you'll start off with decent damage bonuses plus the potential to raise it by a point later, and 19 Strength means +7 to damage rolls with each weapon. So with any weapon that's like a minimum 8-9 damage per hit, and the +3 to hit bonus of that Strength pretty much negates any remaining dual wielding penalties. And you get that with two weapons instead of one with single one handed or two handed, the only restriction being you dual wield two of the same kind of weapon. Most weapon types have at least a few magical weapons out there for you to get, though it'll be a while for some.
I'm doing an all created characters game with SCS and noticed that I would mainly use (Cross)bow + Poison & backstab to kill and to kill spellcasters especially (with Biting Arrows/Bolts) since Dispel Magic is too low level to be of any use anyway. Ranged weapons allow you to instantly reach enemies and don't force you to step into others' field of vision. It also plays well with AI so you don't have to click every damn Kobold that bars your way!
BG1 parties are more reliant on equipment because you don't have enough spells or high level enough to buff your FM. So, a +1 shield is invaluable help. Even with high Strength, I would stick to Sling, Throwing Daggers or Axes.
My party main character is a FMT which I intend to import and thus has Two Weapons proficiency. I have a Gnome FM which also dual wields. If I started a new game, I would just ditch this one proficiency for something else.
I can make a 2H F/M with Bow and 2h Sword Specialization (more fun playrhough I think) or a Dual-Wielding that puts out more damage, but you are stuck with 2 weapons all the time...
I will multi-classe for sure but I don't know if I want the FUN factor the most or the OP factor the most...is there that big of a difference beetween 2H and 2 weapons style ? Like is it more like a 20% difference or morel ike 50% + ?
"Personally, I like the FC a little better, but that's because I prefer to run into melee and whack things over the head as opposed to barraging the battlefield with a bevy of high level spells. "
Personally, my Fighter/Mage prefers running into melee and slicing enemies while also hitting them with magic missiles/sleep spells/magic orbs/spook/wands
@thelovebat
If going something less than 18 Strength, then dual wielding doesn't do as much with just +1 bonus to damage and ranged weapons would do much better. However if going with 18 Strength, you'll start off with decent damage bonuses plus the potential to raise it by a point later, and 19 Strength means + 7 to damage rolls with each weapon. So with any weapon that's like a minimum 8-9 damage per hit, and the +3 to hit bonus of that Strength pretty much negates any remaining dual wielding penalties.
I find Strength scores irrelevant, especially for fighter mages and especially if I'm playing in a party. The fighter Mage can cast strength spells, the cleric can cast strength of one, you can drink strength potions. There are items which give you strength etc...
My favorite Fighter/Mage PC started with a 14 STR, but you better believe he was @ 18(100) STR at least for every major encounter. I guess what I'm saying is, Fighter/Mages are best when dual wielding because they have so many tricks to boost their capabilities. (Personally my Elf F/M uses a 2handed sword because dual wielding longswords is just over the top.)
@lorderon
My current elf F/M
** Two Handed Sword
**Quarterstaff
**Two Handed Weapon Style
He rocks the casbah just fine, but if you've never played an Elven F/M dual wielding longswords, I highly recommend it! It's the Ferrari of character builds in the Baldur's Gate saga
If you want to try a great variety of weapons, you could just pick Longswords that are realiable and numerous, and maybe Axes if you want both the melee/range ability or Slings otherwise.
As a FM, you should aim for a 18/00 Strength on creation. It's not that hard to get with a few rolls unless you want a high points total.
Bows are still really good in BG1 but there are joinable NPCs who can do that for you, whereas there's only one joinable NPC in the Enhanced Edition that comes with the ability to dual wield off the bat. Later on with dual wielding you can also pick a second weapon to dual wield which can actually come in handy for dual wielding multiple nice weapons. So it comes down to having a more powerful build to a more convenient one in the early going, since you can't use multiple two handed weapons at the same time, or a bow and two handed weapon at once, which you can do with dual wielding one handed stuff. You're already versatile enough at range with being able to cast spells or use crowd control spells once you get to a reasonable level.
Also a small thing to consider is skill overlap, and NPCs competing for the best weapon of a certain type. Other NPCs use ranged weapons and two handed proficiencies already, so depending on who you run with in the game they could be relegated to a lesser weapon than you due to sharing weapon skills with you. Dual wielding on the other hand is something only one other NPC does and there are more options for single handed weapons than two handed to pick from. It also allows the opportunity, if you wish, to dual wield say a sword and a blunt weapon at the same time.
@Skarose See, my Fighter->Mages are always dogged by the suspicion that they're wasting their time in melee and should just be sitting back tossing off spell triggers and chain contingencied Horrid Wiltings, etc.
@lorderon My 2c: Go with two-handed swords and bows in BGEE, then build into two weapon style for BG2EE when you'll be less inclined to stick with ranged combat anyway. You'll have the extra proficiency pips to branch out, and two-handed swords (specifically Spider's Bane) and bows combine well with the AoE disable spells you'll have available. Bows will also be really useful until you have the excess spell slots to spam ranged damage spells. Plus, there are only 3 NPCs in the game who are statted to use two-handed swords; one of them (Ajantis) you'll probably want using a sword and shield anyway, one of them can also dual-wield maces (Minsc) and the last is evil and comes with his own sword (Dorn).