Who should receive intelligence bonus?

jankmaster

Minor spoilers for Watcher's Keep



Okay, I'm Doing a run of Watcher's Keep, and I'm wondering when I get to the Machine of Lum the Mad, who should I use the intelligence bonus on? I have two options in my party for the thing right now, Aerie, or Imoen. So... Any suggestions?

Gallowglass

The two key factors about INT are that you need INT 18 to learn level 9 spells (that's a new feature in EE, which wasn't implemented in the original game) and INT 19 to learn an unlimited number of spells. Of course you can increase INT for learning by quaffing a potion at the relevant times, but it's convenient if you don't need to do so. (Note that this is only for initially learning a spell - once you've learnt it, you can thereafter memorise and cast it regardless of INT.)

Aerie starts with INT 16 and Imoen starts with INT 17, either of which can be boosted one point by the Machine, and there's also a wearable item (in ToB) which increases INT by 1 while worn.

Giving the point from the Machine to Imoen, and also giving her the item when she needs to learn, would mean that she can thereafter learn everything without using up potions. I don't think there's a way to get Aerie's INT up to that level without potions ... so if Aerie's always going to need to use potions anyway, then there's probably little benefit in giving her the INT bonus from the Machine.

So I reckon give the point to Imoen.

joluv

Gallowglass said:

I don't think there's a way to get Aerie's INT up to that level without potions

There's the Golden Ioun Stone. I agree with the conclusion, though.

recklessheart

I would recommend going for Imoen as well. If for nothing else, then for the promise of an additional spell slot it might be better: at this point in the game, you can probably afford to rest more often than your spells are going to run out, but if either of these ladies is going to run out of spells, it shall be Imoen. Though I've never tolerated her long enough to find out, I can only assume that Aerie is a near-endless spellwell by ToB due to her multi-class.

Gallowglass

joluv said:

Gallowglass said:

I don't think there's a way to get Aerie's INT up to that level without potions

There's the Golden Ioun Stone. I agree with the conclusion, though.

I was avoiding the spoiler by not naming the item, but that's the item I was talking about. And as I said, even using that, I don't think you can get Aerie's INT up to the level where her learning is unrestricted, except by using potions.

Gallowglass

recklessheart said:

... for the promise of an additional spell slot ...

Eh? The number of "spell slots" (by which I assume you mean the memorised spells per day) is not affected by INT. It's only relevant for learning spells, not for using them.

joluv

@Gallowglass: Sorry, terrible reading comprehension.

sluckers

Intelligence is a somewhat useless statistic, I find, on any difficultly lower than CORE, since most of its effects are nullified at normal difficulty (aside from the learning of high level spells). I usually give it to Imoen for roleplay reasons. I also usually give Imoen any WIS bonuses as well, to limit spell failure (a wisdom score of 13 is the minimum, I believe, for 100 percent successful spellcasting). Bumping Imoen's WIS score to 12 will reduce her spell failure to 5 percent, and there are items galore with give another Wisdom point during the game.

Though it depends on what you're playing, but if you're a warrior type with no need for mental benefits, give them all to Imoen I say. She's one of the most useful characters and will get measureable benefits.

Gallowglass

@sluckers - I don't think spell failure for low WIS has actually been implemented in BG. Better to give WIS bonuses to Clerics and Druids, who actually get extra spells-per-day for higher WIS.

jankmaster

Also, I think the deck of many things give a bonus to a spell casting stat depending on what card you draw and what class you are... As a cleric/mage multi class would Aerie's wis be increased or intelligence be increased, (and side note would the bonus also be better used for imoen?

elminster

Gallowglass said:

@sluckers - I don't think spell failure for low WIS has actually been implemented in BG. Better to give WIS bonuses to Clerics and Druids, who actually get extra spells-per-day for higher WIS.

Yea no spell failure for low wisdom. Otherwise you'd notice it on Minsc a lot (presumably when casting something like Armor of Faith on him)

Gallowglass

jankmaster said:

Also, I think the deck of many things give a bonus to a spell casting stat depending on what card you draw and what class you are... As a cleric/mage multi class would Aerie's wis be increased or intelligence be increased, (and side note would the bonus also be better used for imoen?

The Deck can give a bonus to any stat, not just spell-casting stats.

For a single-class character, it goes to whichever stat is deemed "key" for that character's class - e.g. STR for a Fighter, DEX for a Thief, etc.

It's less obvious where the Deck's stat bonus goes for dual- and multi-classed characters, but (so far as I can tell) it seems to go to the key stat of

1) the original class for a dual-classed character; and
2) the first-named class for a multi-classed character.

IIRC, the Deck gives Imoen a DEX bonus and Aerie a WIS bonus, so neither gets an INT bonus from it.

[Edit: Upon later testing, this isn't correct - see below.]

Arunsun

Mmh I believe that, in the case of a dual-class, it is given to the second class, not the original one.
I'm positive my Kensai=>Thief got a dex bonus from the deck in my last playthrough

Gallowglass

Okay, I've just loaded up an old save and checked this out.

As I thought, Imoen gets +1 DEX from the Deck.

However, contrary to what I thought I remembered, Aerie gets +1 INT, not WIS. [And this means, in response to @jankmaster's original question, that it actually could be worthwhile giving the Machine's bonus INT point to Aerie, but only if you also gave her +1 INT from the Deck - and usually there would have been some better use for the Deck's bonus stat, so this should be a rare circumstance.]

With the latter result and @Arunsun's testimony above, I withdraw my theory about how the bonus is allocated in the case of dual- or multi-classed characters. But since Imoen definitely gets DEX, this means that @Arunsun's theory about it being the second class of a dual also doesn't fit the facts. (Furthermore, it's also not using the hierarchy of Warrior>Priest>Rogue>Wizard to choose the allocation, even though that's used for some other purposes such as physical appearance.)

I am now mystified by how the game decides which class of a dual or multi counts for the Deck's stat bonus.

jankmaster

So then, What combination of the machine of Lum the Mad + deck of many things do you guys think I should use with my party then?

Current party is

Paladin Me (rolled 18s in physical stats plus tomes from bg1 giving 19s has 18 charisma, 15 wisdom, and 11 intel.)

Minsc (Has 19 strength from bonus Unfinished Bussinesss quest but otherwise stats unchanged)

Anomen (Has Brawling Hands dex modify and Crom Faeyer other stats unchanged)

Jaheria (Has Belt of Strength from Elven City, other stats unchanged)

Aerie (Has belt of strength from Ribald, other stats )

and

Imoen (Stats unchanged)

Gallowglass

Hmm, that's a tough one, @jankmaster. There are lots of possibilities!

Your options with the Deck are Paladin - STR, Minsc - STR, Anomen - WIS, Jaheira - WIS, Aerie - INT, Imoen - DEX (I've just tested all of these classes from an old save).

I think I'd probably use the Deck to give STR to either your Paladin or Minsc (for which he gains 1 point to damage each hit - see below).

Then at the Machine, I'd probably give STR to the same one (either your Paladin or Minsc) (gains him 1 THACO and another 1 damage), DEX to Minsc (gains him 1 AC, which he likely needs if he's front-row, and also 1 to his ranged THAC0 and damage), CON to Jaheira (gains her 9 HP, which she often needs, especially if you use her in melee), INT to Imoen (as discussed above), WIS to Anomen (gains him a bonus level 3 spell), and CHA to the Paladin (so now he'll need only the Helm of the Noble for maximum shop discounts, not the Nymph Cloak).

Note that giving two STR points to the same character is better than giving one STR point each to your Paladin and Minsc, because STR 21 gains 1 THAC0 as well as 2 damage more than STR 19, whereas making them both STR 20 wouldn't give either of them more THAC0. The one left with "only" STR 19 would then be the natural candidate for the final STR belt (which you haven't yet got).