Shining Lady stats

Vitor

What do you think are the Shining Lady's stats? Class, Race, Level, Abillity Scores and Alignment?



My guess:

Caelar
Aasimar / Solar
Paladin Lv. 20
(Lawful Good)

Str: 18/23
Dex: 17
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 15
Cha: 20

Kamigoroshi

Race: Luminous Necrotic Post-Human
Class: Fighter
Kit: Endless Walker (lvl. 15)
Karma: -500 (Sword of Despair)

Strength: 15
Perception: 19
Endurance: 17
Charisma: 03
Intelligence: 09
Agility: 19
Luck: 20


She looks radioactive no matter how long I look at that artwork of hers.

Vitor

Kamigoroshi said:

She looks radioactive no matter how long I look at that artwork of hers.

Maybe because she's a Solar?

Kamigoroshi

So we will be fighting radioactive chicken people? Great!

Gallowglass

We're only talking about a level 10-12 party in SoD. A Solar would be much too strong an opponent at those levels, you need to be ToB-level to tackle a Solar.

Given the glowing eyes and the hints of a divine agenda, and in particular given the revelation from Chris Avellone that she's more like a hero (albeit with a conflicting objective) than an actual villain, I agree that she might plausibly turn out to be a Lawful Good Aasimar Paladin. Obviously that's not the only possibility, but it seems to fit the facts so far as yet known.

I'd guess that her level will probably be around 15-16, so that she's very-strong-but-not-totally-ridiculous in comparison to the level-range of the scenario.

I won't even try to guess her detailed stats. Presumably quite good, but beyond that we've nothing to go on.

Vitor

Gallowglass said:

We're only talking about a level 10-12 party in SoD. A Solar would be much too strong an opponent at those levels, you need to be ToB-level to tackle a Solar.

Hm... I think BG1 parties could fight a Solar as a final boss fight. Sarevok were a Fighter Lv. 15, and still we could fight him, even if he was with another 4 strong allies.

A Solar in D&D 2nd Edition has this statistics:

HP: 177
AC: -10
Magic Resistance: 85%
Regenerate: 7hp/round
Immune to +4 weapons or lower

4 Attacks (+5 Vorpal Sword)
Thac0: 5
Damage: 2d10 +16

Spells as a 15th Level Priest.

XP: 225,000

Hm... I guess it could be a very good final boss for Siege of Dragonspear. The unique problem would be the +4 weapon immunity... But you could make a quest to reduce that immunity to +1 or +2, the same way you draw Yaga-Shura out of his immortality in ToB.

SionIV

Vitor said:

Gallowglass said:

We're only talking about a level 10-12 party in SoD. A Solar would be much too strong an opponent at those levels, you need to be ToB-level to tackle a Solar.

Hm... I think BG1 parties could fight a Solar as a final boss fight. Sarevok were a Fighter Lv. 15, and still we could fight him, even if he was with another 4 strong allies.

A Solar in D&D 2nd Edition has this statistics:

HP: 177
AC: -10
Magic Resistance: 85%
Regenerate: 7hp/round
Immune to +4 weapons or lower

4 Attacks (+5 Vorpal Sword)
Thac0: 5
Damage: 2d10 +16

Spells as a 15th Level Priest.

XP: 225,000

Hm... I guess it could be a very good final boss for Siege of Dragonspear. The unique problem would be the +4 weapon immunity... But you could make a quest to reduce that immunity to +1 or +2, the same way you draw Yaga-Shura out of his immortality in ToB.

4 Attacks (+5 Vorpal Sword)

That right there is the problem. Unless you've got a cleric with death ward, she will take one of your characters per hit.

Balrog99

Who says she's going to be the final boss? The party may end up fighting with her, right? Unless I'm missing where it's been announced that she's the antagonist...

Vitor

SionIV said:

4 Attacks (+5 Vorpal Sword)

That right there is the problem. Unless you've got a cleric with death ward, she will take one of your characters per hit.

Well... It's 2% chance of taking one of your characters per hit, you mean?

My main character at the end of BG1 is a Level 8 Berserker with 99 HPs and -19 AC against slashing attacks while raging. Even though, she would have to hit me 4 times to kill me.

SionIV

Vitor said:

SionIV said:

4 Attacks (+5 Vorpal Sword)

That right there is the problem. Unless you've got a cleric with death ward, she will take one of your characters per hit.

Well... It's 2% chance of taking one of your characters per hit, you mean?

My main character at the end of BG1 is a Level 8 Berserker with 99 HPs and -19 AC against slashing attacks while raging. Even though, she would have to hit me 4 times to kill me.

It's the same weapons that the Planetar and Deva (?) have, no? It seems to be quite effective on them. It's not a fun game mechanism, it's purely luck based, and if you're unlucky she can put down half of your team in a few seconds.

And your main character will still die in one hit if you get unlucky, how is that fun?

Solars belong in ToB, not before SoA.

Arunsun

@SionIV
Planetars have a silver sword with added on-hit dispel, Devas have a mace of disruption (upgraded) with added on-hit dispel and chance to stun

@Vitor
Solar would be far too strong. Even without the immunity to +4 or less weapon, without the vorpal sword, they still have -10AC, and 85% magic resistance. That's very very far from easy to even hit. And 4 hits to kill your tankiest character with 4APR means a solar would wipe your entire team in 5 rounds. An Aasimar is already much more credible, as it fits the "divine heritage and great charisma" thing and definitely matches the power level criterion.

SionIV

Arunsun said:

@SionIV
Planetars have a silver sword with added on-hit dispel, Devas have a mace of disruption (upgraded) with added on-hit dispel and chance to stun

@Vitor
Solar would be far too strong. Even without the immunity to +4 or less weapon, without the vorpal sword, they still have -10AC, and 85% magic resistance. That's very very far from easy to even hit. And 4 hits to kill your tankiest character with 4APR means a solar would wipe your entire team in 5 rounds. An Aasimar is already much more credible, as it fits the "divine heritage and great charisma" thing and definitely matches the power level criterion.

I agree with you on everything in this post, but in the original game Sarevok wasn't exactly fair, so it wouldn't be the first time Baldur's Gate had something ridiculously powerful as end boss.

Vitor

SionIV said:

I agree with you on everything in this post, but in the original game Sarevok wasn't exactly fair, so it wouldn't be the first time Baldur's Gate had something ridiculously powerful as end boss.

That's exactly why I am thinking it is possible. And don't forget Irenicus, the Lv. 30 Wizard with passive improved alacrity. He is praticaly an emulation of Elminster or Raistlin Majere. Yes, that's exactly what I said. The final boss of Shadows of Amn is a wizard as powerful as Elminster and Raistlin. Even his stats (STR - 13; DEX - 21; CON - 14; INT - 18; WIS - 18; CHA - 17) are a copy of Elminster's, but with higher Dex.


(Heroes' Lorebook, pg. 48)

Arunsun

@SionIV Well, Sarevok was hard, that's for sure. Level 16 fighter IIRC. But he was hittable. It was hard but doable. And you still had the option of running around with boots of speed on a mage and spam Magic missile when you could. You could have 24 of them back then. Sweet, sweet ring of wizardry. Against a solar however, you cannot do that. You cannot even kite it since it has buffed MS as well.
No, really, an Aasimar, even a planetar, could fit. But a Solar? A solar is one of the most powerful non-divine character in FR, that's not something a level 12 team could deal with.
If you want a taste of how powerful a Solar is, have a look at "The Winged" creature file in BG2. She is already hard enough to kill with a full, 6.5m exp team. With a 500k exp team it is literally impossible.

SionIV

Arunsun said:

@SionIV Well, Sarevok was hard, that's for sure. Level 16 fighter IIRC. But he was hittable. It was hard but doable. And you still had the option of running around with boots of speed on a mage and spam Magic missile when you could. You could have 24 of them back then. Sweet, sweet ring of wizardry. Against a solar however, you cannot do that. You cannot even kite it since it has buffed MS as well.
No, really, an Aasimar, even a planetar, could fit. But a Solar? A solar is one of the most powerful non-divine character in FR, that's not something a level 12 team could deal with.
If you want a taste of how powerful a Solar is, have a look at "The Winged" creature file in BG2. She is already hard enough to kill with a full, 6.5m exp team. With a 500k exp team it is literally impossible.

You had a lot of 'cheese' back then like unlimited summons, but he was almost immune to magic and you did not want to get into close combat with him. He also had his henchmen who did a ton of damage. Back then there was no max HP on level up, nor any powerful kits.

I'm not saying that there should be a Solar in SoD (I don't think there should be), but we have had some less than fair bosses and creatures in Baldur's Gate, so it wouldn't be that much of a leap from what we have now. They could also add certain quests (like mentioned earlier in the thread) that reduces the difficulty of the boss battle, or introduce and item you can get (from questing) like the rod for the Eyeless Beholder, that we could use on her to remove her resistance and other buffs that she have?

So we have the option to fight her with all her buffs up, or use items/quest rewards to reduce the difficulty.

Arunsun

SionIV said:

Arunsun said:

@SionIV Well, Sarevok was hard, that's for sure. Level 16 fighter IIRC. But he was hittable. It was hard but doable. And you still had the option of running around with boots of speed on a mage and spam Magic missile when you could. You could have 24 of them back then. Sweet, sweet ring of wizardry. Against a solar however, you cannot do that. You cannot even kite it since it has buffed MS as well.
No, really, an Aasimar, even a planetar, could fit. But a Solar? A solar is one of the most powerful non-divine character in FR, that's not something a level 12 team could deal with.
If you want a taste of how powerful a Solar is, have a look at "The Winged" creature file in BG2. She is already hard enough to kill with a full, 6.5m exp team. With a 500k exp team it is literally impossible.

You had a lot of 'cheese' back then like unlimited summons, but he was almost immune to magic and you did not want to get into close combat with him. He also had his henchmen who did a ton of damage. Back then there was no max HP on level up, nor any powerful kits.

I'm not saying that there should be a Solar in SoD (I don't think there should be), but we have had some less than fair bosses and creatures in Baldur's Gate, so it wouldn't be that much of a leap from what we have now. They could also add certain quests (like mentioned earlier in the thread) that reduces the difficulty of the boss battle, or introduce and item you can get (from questing) like the rod for the Eyeless Beholder, that we could use on her to remove her resistance and other buffs that she have?

So we have the option to fight her with all her buffs up, or use items/quest rewards to reduce the difficulty.

I would definitely enjoy such an opportunity. Much like in BP2, where you can cripple the Planar Hunters, and should do so because they are... rather tough if you don't. Not impossible but still tough. Well, the same would be awesome here. As a true Berzerker from Rashemen yells "Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes", a tactician studies his enemy's weaknesses and tries to cripple them before battle. Definitely a great idea. Santa Claus, if you are watching me, I've been rather wise this year, I would ask you for SoD with all the awesome content we mention here

Gallowglass

Well I reckon we've reached a consensus that a full-powered Solar would just smash you flat in SoD, although maybe a somehow-crippled Solar would be beatable.

Tastes may vary, but I prefer the idea of fighting an enemy in its proper form at a feasible time, rather than prematurely fighting a nerfed version (i.e. not fighting a "real" one). Thus IMO, Solars belong in ToB, where you have the right tools for the job (and in which you actually do face a Fallen Solar at one point). It's the same reason why the devs never gave us a Dragon to fight in BG1 (in spite of the game being called "Dungeons & Dragons"!) - a proper Dragon would simply slaughter a BG1 party, so they saved all the Dragons for BG2, where the player stands more chance.

I much prefer the Aasimar idea for the Shining Lady. That's the right scale of enemy for an end-SoD battle to be challenging without being unwinnable. (Assuming that we actually do fight her in the end, which indeed may not be the case.)

Svar

I think it most likely that she's an aasimar paladin. If not an aasimar, then probably at least a human with a lawful good deity as one of her parents. I won't even bother guessing her stats.

I imagine she will be the "villain" by virtue of the fact that she is a some sort of holy crusader who sees this Bhaalspawn as an evil abomination that needs to be eliminated on principle, regardless of whether or not Charname is a good person. This would explain why we've been given hints about players being able to visit sites significant to Charname's Bhaal heritage and whatnot. There may be quests involving the Shining Lady gathering evidence against Charname and Charname following her footsteps to find out what exactly she knows or something like that. I think perhaps the professed "dark" ending will entail the Shining Lady revealing what Charname is and turning all of Baldur's Gate against them, forcing them to flee the city.

That's my theory, anyway.

SionIV

Svar said:

I imagine she will be the "villain" by virtue of the fact that she is a some sort of holy crusader who sees this Bhaalspawn as an evil abomination that needs to be eliminated on principle, regardless of whether or not Charname is a good person.

I really hope they won't use this story twist, it has already been used with the Harpers in BG2.

Gallowglass

Balrog99 said:

Who says she's going to be the final boss? The party may end up fighting with her, right? Unless I'm missing where it's been announced that she's the antagonist...

Well, the story (at least as so far revealed) is all about opposing the Crusade which is led by the Shining Lady, so the devs are certainly leading us to assume that she's the principal antagonist. (Of course, they may have some plot twist up their sleeves to surprise us, but we can only base our guesses upon what we know.)

Also, the SoD website does say that "... you must determine whose interests you truly serve before you face the Shining Lady among the ruins of Dragonspear Castle ..." (emphasis added). Perhaps one option for "facing" her might indeed be facing her in peaceful negotiation, but "facing" an antagonist in BG generally means combat.

Arunsun

SionIV said:

Svar said:

I imagine she will be the "villain" by virtue of the fact that she is a some sort of holy crusader who sees this Bhaalspawn as an evil abomination that needs to be eliminated on principle, regardless of whether or not Charname is a good person.

I really hope they won't use this story twist, it has already been used with the Harpers in BG2.

And Balthazar as well. No, really, this plot twist would definitely be disappointing.

brus

Chriss Avellone said SL is kinda better hero than you so maybe her's divine agenda involves mistrust seeing charname a Saverok's brother moreover if Saverok is in your party. She could be a spawn from another god who is rival to Bhaal.

EDIT: Sarevok can't be party member

SionIV

brus said:

Chriss Avellone said SL is kinda better hero than you so maybe her's divine agenda involves mistrust seeing charname a Saverok's brother moreover if Saverok is in your party. She could be a spawn from another god who is rival to Bhaal.

Sarevok can't be in your party, at least not in SoD.

Korbu

Vitor said:

That's exactly why I am thinking it is possible. And don't forget Irenicus, the Lv. 30 Wizard with passive improved alacrity. He is praticaly an emulation of Elminster or Raistlin Majere. Yes, that's exactly what I said. The final boss of Shadows of Amn is a wizard as powerful as Elminster and Raistlin. Even his stats (STR - 13; DEX - 21; CON - 14; INT - 18; WIS - 18; CHA - 17) are a copy of Elminster's, but with higher Dex.

Joneleth Irenicus basically was the elven equivalent to Elminster. Personally, i think Elminster is a bit of a hack though.

Vitor

Korbu said:

Vitor said:

That's exactly why I am thinking it is possible. And don't forget Irenicus, the Lv. 30 Wizard with passive improved alacrity. He is praticaly an emulation of Elminster or Raistlin Majere. Yes, that's exactly what I said. The final boss of Shadows of Amn is a wizard as powerful as Elminster and Raistlin. Even his stats (STR - 13; DEX - 21; CON - 14; INT - 18; WIS - 18; CHA - 17) are a copy of Elminster's, but with higher Dex.

Joneleth Irenicus basically was the elven equivalent to Elminster. Personally, i think Elminster is a bit of a hack though.

I have some theories about Irenicus...



His bizarre apperance leds me to think he made some "experiments" to himself. Looking to this image, I think he did something very extreme to his head. I think he oppened his head and inserted in some way his Spell Book in his brain.

Also, we know that he have passive Improved Alacrity. This is godly spellcasting abillity. I think this could be due to ancient arcane Vyshantaar knowledge. So... I also see Jonneleth as an elven equivalent to Elminster, but darker and sinister as hell. And somewhat improved... But Mystra's Favor possibly ties things up back to Elminster.

Rodrian

I like the idea that she's actually a dragon. Aasimar seems plausible too.. If Solar - definitely some sort of ex/fallen/decreased type (but chopped wings are already Aerie's domain ), and for me, plot twist about her being actually a "good guy", later joining us to defeat something way worse (demon from Dragonspears Castle cellar) is MOST possible.

brus

Rodrian said:

Aasimar seems plausible too.. If Solar - definitely some sort of ex/fallen/decreased type (but chopped wings are already Aerie's domain ), and for me, plot twist about her being actually a "good guy", later joining us to defeat something way worse (demon from Dragonspears Castle cellar) is MOST possible.

Following that, she could be

Super spoiler

secret companion and possible romance in BG2:EE if you could talk her out of the fight in SoD.

Vitor

brus said:

Rodrian said:

Aasimar seems plausible too.. If Solar - definitely some sort of ex/fallen/decreased type (but chopped wings are already Aerie's domain ), and for me, plot twist about her being actually a "good guy", later joining us to defeat something way worse (demon from Dragonspears Castle cellar) is MOST possible.

Following that, she could be

Super spoiler

secret companion in BG2 if you could talk her out of the fight in SoD and possible romance.

Please, Beamdog. Make this happen!

Kamigoroshi

Only after M'khiin got her BG2:EE romance with Gorion's Ward.

Goblins->radioactive fowls

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Vitor said:

SionIV said:

I agree with you on everything in this post, but in the original game Sarevok wasn't exactly fair, so it wouldn't be the first time Baldur's Gate had something ridiculously powerful as end boss.

That's exactly why I am thinking it is possible. And don't forget Irenicus, the Lv. 30 Wizard with passive improved alacrity. He is praticaly an emulation of Elminster or Raistlin Majere. Yes, that's exactly what I said. The final boss of Shadows of Amn is a wizard as powerful as Elminster and Raistlin. Even his stats (STR - 13; DEX - 21; CON - 14; INT - 18; WIS - 18; CHA - 17) are a copy of Elminster's, but with higher Dex.


(Heroes' Lorebook, pg. 48)

Elmister's charisma should be two points higher considering he scores with chicks of all races.

lunar

Vitor said:

Korbu said:

Vitor said:

That's exactly why I am thinking it is possible. And don't forget Irenicus, the Lv. 30 Wizard with passive improved alacrity. He is praticaly an emulation of Elminster or Raistlin Majere. Yes, that's exactly what I said. The final boss of Shadows of Amn is a wizard as powerful as Elminster and Raistlin. Even his stats (STR - 13; DEX - 21; CON - 14; INT - 18; WIS - 18; CHA - 17) are a copy of Elminster's, but with higher Dex.

Joneleth Irenicus basically was the elven equivalent to Elminster. Personally, i think Elminster is a bit of a hack though.

I have some theories about Irenicus...



His bizarre apperance leds me to think he made some "experiments" to himself. Looking to this image, I think he did something very extreme to his head. I think he oppened his head and inserted in some way his Spell Book in his brain.

Also, we know that he have passive Improved Alacrity. This is godly spellcasting abillity. I think this could be due to ancient arcane Vyshantaar knowledge. So... I also see Jonneleth as an elven equivalent to Elminster, but darker and sinister as hell. And somewhat improved... But Mystra's Favor possibly ties things up back to Elminster.

It is obvious Irenicus cut his elven ears off, and supplied an experimental hearing device to his head. He also shaved his hair, applied magic and experiments on his face-it looks like a mask, but the weiny-scary look may be due to his curse, as well. And he went full body builder-anabolic steroids route. All to not look like an elf anymore. Really, he looks taller and broader than a human fighter in game sprite, and his appearance does not scream 'elf' at all. If he looked like an elf, drow would never accept a partnership with him as is shown in the later stages of the game past Spellhold. In one memorable cutscene, he also disintegrates a couple of elves when one tries to say 'you are one of us!' And the matron mother nearby just laughs it off and never ever suspects a thing.

I can not fathom a logical explanation to his enormous codpiece as shown in full pictures of him, though.