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BG1 Viconia: weapons profs and combat style

LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
It's been a long time since I played this game, but I'm reading here that at L2 Viconia joins equipped with mace, small shield, and sling, and here that her weapons profs are specifically in war hammer, mace, and sling.

Two out of three of my party's front line will be taking quite a bit of damage (Rasaad and PC half-elf Fighter-Mage who uses touch spells and melees). So I figure I'll typically position Viconia just behind the three front line meleers and have her hurling sling bullets.

When Viconia does have to melee I'm considering putting her future profs into quarterstaff. I'm forgetting now how that is done... I recall that a quarterstaff is a blunt two-handed weapon, but can't remember how profs are allocated for it in-game...

I played a game in the past with mage PC with high Dex who meleed with a staff. And I was surprised at how rarely he got hit, apparently due to the long reach of the staff and his nimbleness with it. Here too, I'm not looking for Viconia to dish out a lot of damage as a meleer, but rather to avoid taking damage and wasting the enemy's resources by swinging and missing a lot.

But if I do this, I'll be wasting the profs in mace that Viconia comes with. And she won't be using that nice hammer from Bassilus.

Anyway, do you think this is an acceptable trade-off? This assumes that she will in fact not take much damage wielding a stave, which may or may not be the case.

I'm going to resist Shadowkeepering her. Vanilla it is for me on this run, in honor of the original game.

Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks




Comments

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited September 2012
    @Lemernis Give her the ogre gloves and a mace/hammer, she'll be a good fighter. Don't let her tank, but she can easily crit 25+ with 18/00 str.

    Until you get in BG let her use a sling and ankheg armour if you like. In BG2 give her the Crom Faeyr for incredible damage.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @Ward

    Thanks, that probably does make more sense. I'll also have Dorn in the party. But his natural strength as a half-orc will likely be very high to begin with. And the PC will probably wear gauntlets of weapons mastery, or whatever it is that enhances his melee ability.
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    @Lemernis Viconia is useless until she gets ogre gloves, but she does get a better thac0 with slings according to @SandmanCCL so keep her away until you get them.

    The reason I said ankheg armour is because you don't need high strength to use it and it gives as much protection as tank armour.
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    I'll never understand people giving the Crom Faeyr to Clerics in BG2. Not with holy power, DUHM and righteous magic. It's better spent on characters who can't increase their strength whenever they want.

    Viconia should be able to cast holy power & righteous magic in EE, she would make a strong front line fighter with both cast and no gauntlets of orge power. If you decide to put the cloak of balduran on her as well, she'll be particually strong against mages. Even without those spells the level 2 str spell and DUHM would really be enough.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    @Ward

    Ankheg armor is perfect for Viconia in this game, no one else would be using it.

    Lol, I don't see her as useless without gauntlets of ogre strength. I'll also need her healing right away and she's got a mean arm with a slingbullet. If I position her carefully, shielded by the frontliners, she can then get her shots with a melee weapon in alongside them without too much risk from the enemy tanks. She'll be more at risk in the front from ranged weapons and spells than if she stays well to the rear, though.
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    @Isair I give her the Crom Faeyr because she's the only person who's proficient with a big hammer. ;)

    @Lemernis Use her undead to distract basilisks. ;)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    Ward said:

    ...@Lemernis Use her undead to distract basilisks. ;)

    Good tactic! I usually just have Korax do that, but we know the risks involved there.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I always found the mauler's arm mace (sets STR to 18) really useful for Viconia at the beginning of BG2. It's cheapish, sold in the copper coronet and lasts all the way to gauntlets of ogre power or a giant strength belt.

    She does become a very competent meleer with gauntlets of ogre strength and Ashideena (Bassilus' hammer) in BG1 though.
  • Ulfgar_TorunnUlfgar_Torunn Member Posts: 169
    Lemernis said:

    Ward said:

    ...@Lemernis Use her undead to distract basilisks. ;)

    Good tactic! I usually just have Khalid do that, but we know the risks involved there.
    There, I fixed your spelling error. :)

    Concerning the original post, using a staff in no way increases defensive capabilities. You're much better off using a mace. Viconia already possesses proficiency points in mace, it leaves the option of a shield/off-hand weapon, and it does one more damage than the staff. There are no individual staffs in the first Baldur's Gate that warrant use over maces, and any staffs in BG 2 are better in the hands of Fighter/Mages than any cleric.

    I hope this helps.
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    Hey - Sorry this isn't EXACTLY related to your discussion but the post did remind me of a question I had for IWD..... Hopefully someone has the answer because I've googled the sh*t out of it and can only find stuff on IWD 2

    Does anyone know if "Sneak Attack" (installed as part of the HoW expansion) can be used with any wep in IWD1? So can I have a Dwarven Fighter/Thief sneak attack with say, a Two-Handed axe? I know Backstab is limited to Large Swords and Smaller weapons.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Hmm. Well I know the Staff proficiency would be epic round the time you got the Staff Mace. (It's on the Werewolf Island) That thing is quite powerful in BG1.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @Ulfgar_Torunn

    I recall a discussion on the old PBG forums many years ago about whether weapons with a longer reach such as spear, halberd, and quarterstaff confer any such defensive advantage. Some posters maintained it was so, i.e., that tyhey just did not seem to get hit as much when using them. Upon testing it in-game with a mage I was actually very surprised at just how often my stave wielding mage saved against melee attacks. Naturally, he couldn't take too many hits or he was toast. And if a real badass critted him it was lights out.

    But I do not doubt that you're right.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    edited September 2012
    This all boils down to the discussion about what role your cleric plays in your party. If it's my sole divine spellcaster, that guy is NOT engaging in melee combat. He or she is too valuable to the well being of others for me to try to womp things. That's what fighters are for.

    If you've got multiple clerics/druids? Then I can see you throwing a cleric on the front lines. But unless that's the case, I don't see why you'd want the sole character capable of healing the rest of your team in a dangerous spot. If he/she goes down, you're screwed (typically).

    This is why people who claim Viconia is "useless" without gauntlets of ogre power irk me. Is she going to be terribly capable in melee? Not really. But she can still use some pretty good armor (Mitrhil Chain +4 or Ankheg Armor come to mind) and that 19 dex means her ranged thac0 is really good. Give her a sling and watch her go to work. The reason you have a cleric in the party? She can still do that pretty damn good.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    @sandmanCCL

    I'll try to use Viconia right behind my three frontline meleers, where she can heal, spellcast, sling bullets, and occasionally join a meleer in doling out melee strikes:

    image
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Right, that's typically where your cleric should be. Not engaging in melee until it's safe to do so, nearby everyone else to throw buffs/heals when needed. My comment was mostly directed at @Ward.

    Saying someone is "useless" because you don't play to their strengths is kind of silly. That's why Garrick, Skie and Alora I feel are bottom tier NPCs. They simply don't HAVE any strengths.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    I've barely used Alora and Skie (only once for each IIRC). I can barely remember how they worked out, so they must not have been impressive. I wasn't taken with their personalities either.

    I agree that Garrick is a challenge. But the challenge with him, as I recall, was how to get the most out of him--which was still rather fun for me. I like his personality, which helps.

    He was a backrow character for my parties, for sure. I had him carry a lot of the potions, gems, extra light weapons, and other such clutter. His lore is good, so he was able to identify most items after a while. I'd also have him use the Identify spell so that my mage(s) wouldn't have to waste a slot on it.

    In combat I'd have him fire off whatever offensive spells he had and then use Bard Song.

    He didn't work out too bad, really. I mean, eventually you reach the point with development of tactical skills where you can mop the floor with the enemies with the game's strongest characters. Then you almost have to start looking for a challenge of some sort. Garrick certainly provides that! ;)
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    @Ward I usually equip Korgan with the Crom Faeyr in his off-hand (he has pips in it) & in good parties I have Haer'Dalis use it in his off-hand. By the time you get all the peices for it, nearly anyone could have pips in hammer. It makes a dramatic difference to both characters and frees up their belt slot.
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    Regarding the armor options, I usually put her in the +3 golden plate armor. Lower AC than Ankheg and Mithril. It also weighs less than Ankheg (25 I think - +3 plate 18). I think the Mithril can be put to better use on fighter/thieves.
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