Your favourite NPC

MrNooby

Recruitable that is. Not referring to their strength, just the NPC themselves.

I find it hard to decide, and I haven't actually used all of them.

I like Jaheria in BG1 just for the "Yes oh omnipresent authority figure?", kinda bummed that she doesn't say that in BG2. Or maybe I just like her because I'm biased since I romanced her.

Khalid just because of "better part of valor, better part of valor!", and of course the great Minsc, all of his lines are awesome. Why doesn't Boo squeak when I use him from the quickslot of Minsc? It'd be cool if there was actually some special ability he could use once a day or something involving Boo. And you can't forget his line when you put him in the lead..."Minsc will lead with blade and boot! Boo will take care of the details. *sqeuak*"

Aerie gets on my nerves sometimes. She is so whiny...

When I first got to the Underdark and she started panicing, asking that I don't abandon her here, the first thing I did was remove her from the party to see what she would say, slightly disappointed that there's no special dialogue there, but oh well.

So, which NPCs do you love. Or hate?

Caeria

First, I am taking Aerie away from you and putting her somewhere safe and warm, because you don't deserve her.

That's an easy question, though. My all-time favorite NPC is Kivan. I swear I'm not obsessed with him. Much. Then comes Coran. In fact, I like to tell anyone who will listen that while Coran was my first love, Kivan is my true love. Yeah, so that's pretty embarrassing to say, but it's true. I also really like Xan because I think he's hilarious. Clearly, I am a racist who has a thing for elves.

I do also like Jaheira and Khalid though. I always cry when Khalid dies, and no matter what anyone says about her Jaheira is a strong woman. I looked up to her a lot as a child playing Baldur's Gate; I probably still do.

Oh, and I like Haer'Dalis and Sarevok a lot too.

I do not like Dorn or Hexxat at all. I played with them once each and I can't stand either of them. I wanted to tear my hair out the whole time I used them and I love my hair. It was torture and I will never use either of them ever again. I hate Hexxat so much that I always petrify her, then smash her statue. Very satisfying.

MrNooby

Remind me not to get on your bad side....

And hey, it's not like I left Aerie there. I reloaded afterwards - sometimes I like to pick certain options throughout the game just to see the result before I turn back time - and then the NPC never knows the better.

Although I once played a game where NPCs knew what you had done even if you had reloaded - like one would comment how you had reloaded your game after killing a certain NPC, or if you were horrifically evil and reloaded just to kill them again.

Maybe I should cut Aerie a little slack. She really is whiny, but I suppose she does have a hard time getting over the loss of her wings. It'd be nice if I could help her through that, without having to actually romance her. Little bummed that's how it works actually. You're in a romance with this person, and you can never talk to the other people again. NEVER! Go straight to jail, do not pass go, and do NOT collect 200 dollars.

Caeria

Heh

Okay, at least you didn't leave her there. That would just be way too cold. I guess I can understand your curiosity in wanting to see if there was special dialogue there...I'm sure I've done similar things.

Yeah, the lack of friendship paths in BG is pretty disappointing, but some of the bioware NPCs do have mods for that. Very few though, I think. Though I seem to remember something about somebody working on an Aerie mod...I don't know if they still are though.

MrNooby

Seems to me Bioware always seems to kinda hit the mark with their NPCs and dialogue...and miss by a little.

Neverwinter Nights was okay, but given how minor henchmen were in that game, I didn't really feel all that invested in them anyway, it was kinda mediocre at best. I refuse to even comment on the bug riddled filth that is Neverwinter Nights 2, that could have been amazing but wasn't.

Dragon Age Origins was decent in that department, except it was, make camp, talk to companion, exhaust all dialogue options, you're now madly in love with each other.

The reason I bring all that up, is that because I feel like Dragon Age Awakening took a little inspiration from BG2 in regards that instead of simply talking to your companions and exhausting it all in 5 minutes, it was triggered by examining certain objects around the world with certain companions with you. Which wasn't quite so bad, except that I felt that the dialogue I got from them wasn't particularly interesting.

I like BG2s system of it being time based, although I wouldn't mind having a few dialogue options I could talk to them about instead myself - perhaps after certain events. The time-based dialogue made me feel like I was doing something, even if I was doing a side quest I didn't find particularly interesting. It was that feel of "by the time I finish this dungeon, Jaheria will want to talk to me again and perhaps she'll be feeling a bit better now after so-and-so, which made me feel more personally invested as opposed to just talking to her and hearing everything she had to say in a few minutes.

I definitely plan to look around for a few mods before I start a second playthrough, after I finish this one anyway. I've heard mixed opinions on the NPC project, so I haven't got it for this playthrough. But maybe I'll try it after. Also, where is it that this mod was being worked on? Even if it's not done, I'd love to see such a thing for other NPCs. Honestly, I'd love something similar to the love-talks (but not being forced into romance) for all of the NPCs that can travel with you.

Caeria

I see what you mean about DAO, but I don't *completely* agree...I mean, there were definitely friendship paths. The romances weren't amazing, sure, but at least one of the romancable companions had a nice friendship path, though the name escapes me at the moment. The bard girl. Still, I get what you mean. It could have been better. DAA was a little better with friendships, but I didn't feel it was that compelling either. I also hate DAA and only played it once years ago, so my memory isn't that great.

I wish there was player-initiated dialogue in BG, at least every once in a while. Some mods add this, and I personally really like the ability to be able to talk to NPCs whenever I feel like it. Some mods do it better than others, but it's really a nice option to have either way, I feel it adds more immersion to the game. Totally silent NPCs are unrealistic, I want them to talk to me.

Here's the link to the Aerie mod I mentioned on G3, but like I thought, there haven't been any updates for months: http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27078

I know there's an Imoen Friendship mod (I use it), and a Viconia Friendship mod, which I haven't used, though I'd like to since it seems like it would be fun to get to know her without romancing her but she just doesn't fit into my good-aligned parties, alas.

I like friendship paths a lot, and I wish all the bioware NPCs had them.

MrNooby

Oh sorry, I must have misworded a little there. I didn't mean to say there wasn't any meaningful dialogue outside of romances. I was more talking about how fast it was exhausted. I mean I guess you could pace yourself, but I find it really hard not to explore the dialogue that's in front of me - which is why I really like the way it's done outside of BG2, aside from the complaints I've already made. I had no problem with the way dialogue advanced in DAO, just that it all got exhausted super quickly.

I've only gone through the Jaheria romance, but I felt like it was spaced apart in a way that worked, and felt you were gradually getting in a serious relationship, over the travels as opposed to over 10 minutes in a camp.

As for player intitated dialogue in BG - absolutely, I'd love to do that on demand. I'd just like to have whatever dialogue options available in there to be spaced out in some way or form, because that's exactly what I didn't like about DAO. Although it'd be really cool if your travelling companions might have something to say about each place you're in. There was a game that had something like that, it was minor but it added a little more immersion into the game. Can't remember what game it was though.

I assume the two other friendship mods you mentioned are on G3 aswell?

And although the Aerie one hasn't been updated in sometime, it still works right, even if unfinished?

Caeria

Ah, okay, you're making more sense now Now I definitely see what you mean. I sometimes have a hard time pacing myself in DAO too, but I'm getting better about it, I swear. It's just so easy to just zoom through everything when it's sitting right in front of you.

The BG2 romances are nice in that, even if you wanted to, unless you use the console or leave the game running, etc., you can't really speed through the romance. It's meant to be developed over a longer period of time.

There are some mod characters that behave a bit like how you described...they'll have comments on different locations and stuff. Most of them also have player-initiated dialogue too. Some even have different PID based on different plot points in the game. It's pretty cool. Now if only all the bioware NPCs had that as well...*sigh* Well, they do in the NPC project, but that's only for BG1.

The mods are actually on SHS. Here they are: http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/imoenfriendship & http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/viconia

I have no idea if the Aerie mod works as I haven't tried it myself, but as a general rule it probably should. Don't quote me on that though

MrNooby

So the NPC project makes the vanilla NPCs behave as the mod ones do? That's pretty cool.

Does it not apply to vanilla in the BG2 version of the mod, or is there simply not one created, and if there isn't any idea if one is planned?

That's exactly what I'm looking for....although it'd be a little immersion breaking for me to have frequent conversations with a companion but not the one I'm romancing, if there is indeed one for BG2 that doesn't apply to vanilla NPCs.

Caeria

That's almost exactly what it does! Some parts of it are better than others, but overall, I love the NPC project. It adds so much to the game. It's a shame there's no BG2 NPC project, but something like that takes a lot of time and resources, so it makes sense. Still, it's a loss as while BG2 NPCs may not be totally silent, they're definitely not talkative either. Even banter packs only make them talk more to each other, which, yeah, is implied by the name, but still, my charname just stands there thinking talk to me!

I don't mind lots of conversations with NPCs I'm not romancing, since if I was my charname I would probably never shut up and talk to my companions all the time, but I can see where that would break immersion.

MrNooby

I like having dialogue with all my companions, and I don't mind if it's heavy amounts of it either, infact - I'd prefer that. It would be the part where I have more conversations with my other companions than the one I'm romancing - that's the part that would break immersion for me. But can't have everything we want.

Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope a BG2 NPC Project mod comes out.

spammy

Keldorn. I take him on all runs now. In the pre Keldorn area, I used to mix my party with some evil aligned characters, just because I wanted to know what other players saw in them and to get as much side quests as possible, but for some reason there never was an empathic bond. I couldn't care less if Viconia was smashed to bits or Dorn getting eaten by werewolves. Except for Edwin because of the comic relief factor. But if something happened to a good/neutral aligned party member? Reload time.

Pantalion

MrNooby said:

Maybe I should cut Aerie a little slack. She really is whiny, but I suppose she does have a hard time getting over the loss of her wings. It'd be nice if I could help her through that, without having to actually romance her.

In my latest playthrough, CHARNAME did just that. Followed her dialogue tracks through the whole mental breakdown (with Jaheira out of party in another building while resting to avoid the worst of the conflicting, whiny, dialogues), built her self-esteem back up, generally worked with her as she became a more mentally balanced individual, then never followed it through into romance. She thanks you for being so supportive, and that's it. No romancing your therapist, Aerie, it's not healthy. You already have mad Stockholm syndrome for Quayle.

Anyway, yeah, favourite?

Probably Mazzy Fentan. She never quits over anyone. She's loyal, virtuous, heroic, and very low drama. Of an original cast featuring two knights of the Radiant Heart, she's the one who acts how real paladins should but never do. That's especially interesting for a race that's usually pigeonholed into "plucky comic re-thief". Honourable mentions go to Edwin and Yoshimo, the former for his smug snake qualities, the latter for that complicated blend of reasons we all know and love.

EE characters would probably be Rasaad, for much the same reason. The man's a mellow, sensible, bro who talks to you reasonably about his concerns when you accidentally fireballed that family, and never complains when you slaughter an army of paladins. Plus he always appreciates your jokes, what a bro.

Neera's a close second, if only because she doesn't constantly whining about her past, isn't constantly judgemental about your present, and doesn't make up batloony stories to drive you away. Her romance track is cutesy, with two people cracking jokes and being friends, not sharing melodramatic backstories and overcoming past traumas. That's a whole lot better than the sexual healing thing that the other romances seem to have going on.

Hall of Shame:

Hexxat. I could fill a thread with loathing. While her all-business personality is fine, if mislabelled - she should be lawful evil - the black lesbian vampire derails EVERYTHING, including CHARNAME. Everything revolves around her, formerly mellow party mates find themselves driven to absurd extremes of behaviour or simply far out of character. Dialogue choices pigeonhole you into being stupid, overreacting, or disinterested. And both character and quest are glitchy as anything. Stunned? She can't turn into mist, she sits there on 1 HP tanking for the party while everyone whales on her, until drinking a potion so she de-stuns to go back to 10 HP to be perfectly fine thereafter.

Dorn. Much like Hexxat, Dorn forces CHARNAME into highly specific branches of evil for most of his interactions, again for no apparent reason. He's pretty mellow in BG1, going about his revenge and stuff is fine, but in BG2 he leaps head first into stupid Evil. We must sacrifice something. You have a thousand wands of summoning? Pah, how about our party mates? Sneak in with subtlety? No! I am less subtle than Minsc! Bereaved mother? Antagonise her pointlessly! Ugh.

Nalia. I will never, ever forgive her for whining at me about not helping the needy while clearing her damned keep for her.

elminster

Jan Jansen is my favourite.

Kilivitz

Coming late to the Aerie discussion: she kinda grew on me (far from being my favorite, though). I think she's a good example of a well-written, non-zealot Lawful Good character (looking at you, Keldorn). Even after all the bad stuff that happened to her, she doesn't dwell on resentfulness. Sure there's a lot of self-loathing going on, but she's still moved by compassion and a desire to help others. She may be annoying, but Aerie's a true hero.

With that said, Viconia rocks.

Lord_Tansheron

Story/Flavor: Aerie, Viconia, Nalia

Mechanics: Sarevok, Keldorn

Whiny Righteous Pain-in-the-Butt-ness: Anomen

Reticent

Jan is probably the best all around.

Mazzy is the romance I wish they had implemented.

Korgan is rather better company than you would think.

Kilivitz

elminster said:

Jan Jansen is my favourite.

"It will be done with skill and care, if not brevity" is hands down the best action acknowledgement sound of any RPG ever.

SionIV

Baldur's Gate - Alora, Garrick, Xzar + Montaron.
Baldur's Gate II - Cernd, Edwin, Viconia, Mazzy, Jan.
Throne of Bhaal -

Imoen + Sarevok.

Caeria

@MrNooby Ahhh, I see what you mean. It's true that when I'm dating someone I probably talk more to them than to my platonic friends (although that's arguable, but whatever), so I can see how it would be nice to have such a thing reflected in the game. That's why I like when NPCs have flirts because it expands their dialogue, if superficially.

I'd love to see an NPC project for BG2 (heck, I'd pay for one), but I doubt that such a thing will ever see the light of day, alas.

MrNooby

You and me both Caeria, I'd love to see the creator of the first one make a kickstarter or something. Not gonna get millions of dollars, but maybe it would be enough, who knows?

Hudzy

My understanding is that it was written by several people, each writing a character they had an interest in. That's why some feel less developed than others. The passion is obvious though in my opinion and I never play without it. Any BG2 project would likely also require several authors collaborating and I don't really see it happening on that kind of scale now.

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MrNooby

Hudzy said:

My understanding is that it was written by several people, each writing a character they had an interest in. That's why some feel less developed than others. The passion is obvious though in my opinion and I never play without it. Any BG2 project would likely also require several authors collaborating and I don't really see it happening on that kind of scale now.

True enough, but I can dream :P

Arunsun

Mmmh Baeloth, Safana, Viconia and Xan for BG1, and Keldorn, and still Viccy for BG2

sarevok57

my favourite NPC has to be sarevok, I just finished a newly created ToB run and Sarevok was owning everybody that started a chat with him, just simply priceless

sluckers

In BG1, my all time fave is Xan. I just love that guy. Garrick is also up there.

Mazzy in BG2, though Yoshimo is a close second.

MrNooby

The only thing that annoyed me about Yoshimo...

I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.
I can dance on the head of a pin as well.

I swear hes scripted to say that line 90% of the time.

Gallowglass

I don't really have consistent, permanent favourites. It varies with mood and circumstances.

Nevertheless, in both BG1 and BG2, Imoen is in my party more often than anyone else, so I guess she qualifies as a favourite.

AlexDeLarge

Why must you insufferable monkeys always ask these inane questions? I think you can tell who my favorite NPC is.

abazigal5

BG1: Baeloth, Edwin (some of his selection lines make me laugh every time I hear them). WHAT is it NOW?
BG2: Sarevok, maybe Valygar.