A way to tweak the NPC's without changing them.
AzL0n
Member Posts: 126
I think all of you will agree that there is a certain disparity in strenth from BG's NPC's. When having Minsc and Garrick duel against eachother on level 1 it's not to hard to imagine who's going to win. Now I know that Mr. Osner and his team can't touch on the original NPC's because of legal issues (They can't change their stats or their scripts). So I've though about ways to improve the NPC's without changing their stats and the obvious answer to that is gear. Here is the list of items that I would like there to be added to EE so that it can profit our less fortunate NPC's and make them on par with the stronger ones. Please add to this list your own.
For Faldorn: I started with her because Faldorn is arguably the most useless NPC of all of BG. She is bested by Jaheira who is also a druid, by far (And that's not saying much). A big problem with vanilla druids like her is that she can't use metal armors and thus her A.C suffers greatly, while Jaheira, being a warrior-druid can wear a full plate which gives her a huge advantage. The obvious solution? Have an armor somewhere (Maybe in one of the new zones) An armor of the forest wearable by druids only which gives a chainmail like A.C, allows the wearer to cast stoneskin and confers some additional druid spells. Jaheira could wear this armor just like Faldorn but obviously Faldorn would beneficiate from this the most since Jaheira would have to choose between losing A.C and gaining new spells or being harder to touch. An item like this would make Faldorn a worthwhile NPC to have around.
For the Bards (Garrick and Eldoth): So both of there characters are absolutely useless due to the unfortunate choices they made in life of becoming bards. Bards are terrible, they can wear light armors but they can't cast with them and if they don't wear armor giving them terrible A.Cs, their spell list is exausted in roughly 3.5 seconds. Obvious solution? Bring an armor in BG1 alike to the one in SoA (The one in the planar sphere) which makes bards able to cast while wearing it (I would like a different design though). It would be nice if it was some kind of Jester chain mail like the one in SoA which could be got at the carnival. Maybe by killing some evil buffoon. The fact that the item would be accessible early on would mean Garrick would actually be okay to bring into Nashkel's mines (Not quite but it would be a huge improvement). I would argue that Bards would then need some other item to be on par (Please add your own).
For all the NPC's with low constitution ( Safana, Xan, Shar-teel, Xzar): So these NPC's are seriously hurt from their low constitutions. I would say that Xan is the most penalized from it. Xan is supposed to be a sort of battle mage but his constitution is so helplessly low that he is made essentially useless. Same thing with Shar-teel (Although she is not useless due to her high strength and dex) She is supposed to be a front liner but she is far too weak to be a tank. Safana also with her okay strength could be turned into some kind of assassin but she's too weak to be put in any kind of situation where she could take even one hit. Same thing with Xzar being a necromancer but being too weak to get close enough to goul touch his enemies or whatever it is that necromancers do. Solution to this? SoA had the girdle of constitution or whatever it was called which was a usable once a day item and gave the characters max HP for their class. This item wasn't very worthwhile in SoA due to the fact that characters even with the lowest constitution already had decent HP (decent enough to survive a couple of hits anyway) but in BG1 this item would be just as useful as the gloves of dex or strength. So I would like there to be the equivalent of the girdle of constitution in some other form in BG1 and for it to be found early on enough in the game.
For the halflings (Alora and Montaron): Both of these characters suck although Alora sucks more than Montaron. I want there to be an item in Gullykin which can only be used by halflings. An item of invisibility would make sense since Montaron is pretty much a backstab thief due to his pretty good strength and Alora could be turned into into as well if given the gloves of ogre power (That's a stretch I know). So anyway a cloak of invisibility 3 times a day for halflings (actually make that a ring that would be far more comical) would be a sweet addition. Also it would make it worth your time to head out to Gullykin which is pretty barren as is.
For the gnomes (Tiax and Quayle): So both of these gnomes pretty much suck (like most of the midgs in this game) although which of the two sucks more is arguable. This is mostly due to the fact that they are both half clerics but have terrible wisdoms to back it up (12 and 10 respectively). This could be fixed by adding an item somewhere in whichever chapter doesn't matter since these characters are recruited late in the game, an item usable for gnomes only (maybe another ring) a +2 wisdom ring or something which would give them some more spells.
Okay that's all I've got so far but I'll add some more soon enough. Please add your own suggestions.
For Faldorn: I started with her because Faldorn is arguably the most useless NPC of all of BG. She is bested by Jaheira who is also a druid, by far (And that's not saying much). A big problem with vanilla druids like her is that she can't use metal armors and thus her A.C suffers greatly, while Jaheira, being a warrior-druid can wear a full plate which gives her a huge advantage. The obvious solution? Have an armor somewhere (Maybe in one of the new zones) An armor of the forest wearable by druids only which gives a chainmail like A.C, allows the wearer to cast stoneskin and confers some additional druid spells. Jaheira could wear this armor just like Faldorn but obviously Faldorn would beneficiate from this the most since Jaheira would have to choose between losing A.C and gaining new spells or being harder to touch. An item like this would make Faldorn a worthwhile NPC to have around.
For the Bards (Garrick and Eldoth): So both of there characters are absolutely useless due to the unfortunate choices they made in life of becoming bards. Bards are terrible, they can wear light armors but they can't cast with them and if they don't wear armor giving them terrible A.Cs, their spell list is exausted in roughly 3.5 seconds. Obvious solution? Bring an armor in BG1 alike to the one in SoA (The one in the planar sphere) which makes bards able to cast while wearing it (I would like a different design though). It would be nice if it was some kind of Jester chain mail like the one in SoA which could be got at the carnival. Maybe by killing some evil buffoon. The fact that the item would be accessible early on would mean Garrick would actually be okay to bring into Nashkel's mines (Not quite but it would be a huge improvement). I would argue that Bards would then need some other item to be on par (Please add your own).
For all the NPC's with low constitution ( Safana, Xan, Shar-teel, Xzar): So these NPC's are seriously hurt from their low constitutions. I would say that Xan is the most penalized from it. Xan is supposed to be a sort of battle mage but his constitution is so helplessly low that he is made essentially useless. Same thing with Shar-teel (Although she is not useless due to her high strength and dex) She is supposed to be a front liner but she is far too weak to be a tank. Safana also with her okay strength could be turned into some kind of assassin but she's too weak to be put in any kind of situation where she could take even one hit. Same thing with Xzar being a necromancer but being too weak to get close enough to goul touch his enemies or whatever it is that necromancers do. Solution to this? SoA had the girdle of constitution or whatever it was called which was a usable once a day item and gave the characters max HP for their class. This item wasn't very worthwhile in SoA due to the fact that characters even with the lowest constitution already had decent HP (decent enough to survive a couple of hits anyway) but in BG1 this item would be just as useful as the gloves of dex or strength. So I would like there to be the equivalent of the girdle of constitution in some other form in BG1 and for it to be found early on enough in the game.
For the halflings (Alora and Montaron): Both of these characters suck although Alora sucks more than Montaron. I want there to be an item in Gullykin which can only be used by halflings. An item of invisibility would make sense since Montaron is pretty much a backstab thief due to his pretty good strength and Alora could be turned into into as well if given the gloves of ogre power (That's a stretch I know). So anyway a cloak of invisibility 3 times a day for halflings (actually make that a ring that would be far more comical) would be a sweet addition. Also it would make it worth your time to head out to Gullykin which is pretty barren as is.
For the gnomes (Tiax and Quayle): So both of these gnomes pretty much suck (like most of the midgs in this game) although which of the two sucks more is arguable. This is mostly due to the fact that they are both half clerics but have terrible wisdoms to back it up (12 and 10 respectively). This could be fixed by adding an item somewhere in whichever chapter doesn't matter since these characters are recruited late in the game, an item usable for gnomes only (maybe another ring) a +2 wisdom ring or something which would give them some more spells.
Okay that's all I've got so far but I'll add some more soon enough. Please add your own suggestions.
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Comments
For Ski: So Ski is completely useless since her stats are pretty much on par though a little crappier than Imoen's and because when you can finally get her in chapter 5 she has the worst thieving stats ever. So I've thought about a way to improve her character so that she can rival with Imoen and that would go well with her annoying princess persona. Have an item in Endar estate in Ski's room which would be usable only by Ski. A golden tiara which would have +1 A.C and one dire charm a day (Just an idea). I also thought about a mirror in quick slots which would do some spell or another (image mirror?) Feel free to add your own.
I think it would be nice if they added more class and race specific items though. I'm just not sure what would be the best option. Bards could definitely use an armor that allows them to cast Arcane spells though.
Mages are fragile while young and get stronger than a warrior in time thats how it works in d&d...
And even if the NPCs are unbalanced that is a good thing. That's the beauty of it. NPC like people are diferent, some better some worse, some depend on how you use them. But I like those diferences, if you want to have a NPC in your party accept them as they are. Know it sounds wierd but that is my opinion.
Well, I can see why you must think that I'm using double standards. Here I'm agreeing with adding some nice items for NPCs, while in the other topic I disagreed with moving the Gauntlets of Ogre Power to an earlier place in the story, and perhaps I really am using double standards. But I think this request is a bit different.
For one, I actually don't agree with all the suggestions (the armor for Faldorn for example, or the solution for the low CON characters), basically because I don't think these characters really need a buff of that kind. This is the same as with the Gauntlets.
Mages are fragile while young and get stronger than a warrior in time thats how it works in d&d...
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I never said mages were too weak. I agree that mages should be fragile at first to eventually become extremely powerful. We're talking about bards here. Bards suck, their songs suck, the fact that they can use armors but not when they're casting suck, bards can't fight, bards can't cast, bards just plain suck. I'm not suggesting that they tweak bards, just that they add some items. I'm actually a firm believer in sticking to D&D rules so I would never suggest changing a class.
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And even if the NPCs are unbalanced that is a good thing. That's the beauty of it. NPC like people are diferent, some better some worse, some depend on how you use them. But I like those diferences, if you want to have a NPC in your party accept them as they are. Know it sounds wierd but that is my opinion.
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I agree. And I do accept them as they are, I'm suggesting adding items .
For the gnome Clerics, I actually think their Wisdom score is ridiculous for a Cleric, so I wouldn't mind seeing a minor buff for them either.
But I guess there's simply some stuff that I'd like to see as opposed to others.
NOTE: Had to split the post in two so I could post the entire message.
Don't you think that Faldorn blows though? Have you ever brought her along? :P
Completely agree. If a character is gonna be boring at least make him useful right? I.E Kagain
Well I'll be honest with you, I never used Faldorn because I like Jaheira a lot more. This is basically a problem with my own pre-conceptions I guess. Since Jaheira is a Fighter/Druid I basically think that her place is in the front lines doing Fighter stuff. Faldorn as a pure Druid (and crappy Strength) seems more like a support/spell blasting role to me, so giving her better armor wouldn't fit my playstyle I guess. When I think of Faldorn on the front lines I only see it if she's shapeshifting or something. So basically, its my own personal preferences.
But here's somethng to think about: the Devs can't touch original content, but with Tob engine and Str requirements on weapons the Gnomes can't use their own starting gear! How are they gonna get around that? Looks like a stat update might be in order.
Sure her wisdom is on par with Branwen and Yeslick but Branwen has superior Str. Dex. and Con and Yeslick has far superior Str. and Con. Add to that the fact that Druids are pretty lousy when compared to clerics and you've got an all around pretty crappy character. Now I'm not even suggesting that they change her in any way I'm just suggesting an item for druids.
On Alora and Montaron. The thing with Alora is yes she does have the best thieving stats. The problem is that you get her too late in the game and by the time you finally get her let's say you're rolling with Imoen since the beginning she's already got all the thief points you need. It's not like you're going to backstab with Imoen or Alora due to their poor str so no real need for hide in shadows and pick pocket is a useless skill in BG1. So yes Alora IS the best thief in the game but she's still rather useless. As for Monty, he is pretty good with a sling but the problem is that it takes a while before making him a useful thief OR a useful fighter and by the time he's good enough you've got Coran who's far stronger than him. Anyways in any case I think it would be fun to see some halfling only gear being found or bought in Gullykin.
Regarding TOB engine, good point. I wonder what they'll do with that. Pretty sure they'll have to change some stats.
In SoA having a good thief is very useful. Not only is backstab a lot stronger so hiding in shadows is a lot more useful but you've also got new skills such as traps which kicks ass also pick pockets becomes truly useful because there is many very powerful and expensive item that you can get for free with it. In BG1 you put skills points in pick locks and find traps, putting skill points in hide in shadows being useless because of the armor and boots. Once you got pick locks and find traps at 80% you don't really need anymore thieving points and you get there at like level 5 with imoen. So that's what I mean by the best thief but useless nonetheless when compared with other thieves mainly Coran or Imoen. Anyway feel free to disagree.