Dulrag's story eerily similar to Thorin Oakenshield in The Hobbit by Tolkien?

johntyl

I recently finished watching the Hobbit trilogy and can't help noticing the eerie resemblance between some of the story elements found in the dwarf Thorin's family and Durlag's own. Is this just a coincidence or am I overthinking?

Lord_Tansheron

It's not coincidence, but keep in mind that Tolkien also borrowed heavily from other sources, like Nordic lore etc. Down to taking the names of many of his dwarves straight outta ancient epics, unchanged

The underlying story elements are usually recurring themes throughout literary history, there are very few truly original stories.

johntyl

Pardon my ignorance in the fantasy genre (although I'm a fan of fantasy games, I'm not a well-read person of this genre myself), I know that Baldur's Gate takes place in the Forgotten Realms but how much of Forgotten Realms is borrowed from say Tolkien's world or other sources like Nordic lore as you've mentioned? Also, does the elf race in Baldur's gate share any similar roots to the elf in Tolkien's world or the elf in Dragonlance for example? Sometimes I get so confused.

Lord_Tansheron

Most modern-day fantasy is heavily inspired by various real-world myths, but Tolkien definitely has done his part to set a baseline for the entire genre.

By now, most sufficiently complex and deep worlds (and Forgotten Realms/DnD is definitely that) have come up with enough explanations and background lore to make them original enough that Tolkien is just an inspiration, and there are probably more differences to his concepts than there are similarities.

You can check some of the many very informative wikis on DnD worlds to find out more about races like elves etc. It's very well explained, mostly.

meagloth

My condolences about the hobbit movie.

But other than that yeah, heh, funny how that works. It's like D&D is heavily inspired by tolkiens world or something.

Lord_Tansheron said:

It's not coincidence, but keep in mind that Tolkien also borrowed heavily from other sources, like Nordic lore etc. Down to taking the names of many of his dwarves straight outta ancient epics, unchanged

The underlying story elements are usually recurring themes throughout literary history, there are very few truly original stories.

Would like to point of that Tolkien was trying to make a European mythology with his writing, which is why so many things are from other tales. Thier not "borrowed" in a way you're supposed to not notice and think he made it all up, thier shared with and connected to other classics intentionally to make the world bigger and more real.
For example in the dark ages some Britons lived in sod housed built into hills, like hobbit holes. Also, Theodin, the name of thing king of Rohan means "king" in some old English language (I forget which one), and so does his fathers name, and his grandfathers name.

Gallowglass

@johntyl - of course, some aspects of FR are more influenced by Tolkien than others. Looking specifically at the playable races:

FR halflings are essentially Tolkien's hobbits, which were purely Tolkien's own invention and not based on prior legends, but FR has to call them "halflings" because the word "hobbit" is IP of the Tolkien estate.

FR dwarves are very like Tolkien's dwarves, but Tolkien based them on prior legends so this influence isn't specifically attributable to Tolkien.

FR elves are only vaguely similar to Tolkien's elves, and in particular do not share Tolkien's origin story for the eldar.

FR orcs are not much like Tolkien's orcs, but instead are quite like Tolkien's uruk-hai, and both orcs and uruk-hai were Tolkiens' own inventions (although fortunately his estate doesn't claim copyright over the word "orc").

FR gnomes are not based upon anything in Tolkien, his works don't have gnomes at all.

johntyl

Gallowglass said:

FR halflings are essentially Tolkien's hobbits, which were purely Tolkien's own invention and not based on prior legends, but FR has to call them "halflings" because the word "hobbit" is IP of the Tolkien estate.

I actually thought Tolkien's hobbits resembles the kenders of Forgotten Realms, espeically Tasslehoff in the Dragonlance series.

SethDavis

Merry and Pippin would get along great with Tas, though kender are chronically afflicted with wanderlust and hobbits in general never leave home.

johntyl

SethDavis said:

Merry and Pippin would get along great with Tas, though kender are chronically afflicted with wanderlust and hobbits in general never leave home.

But the Baggins are afflicted with wanderlust too, but i guess they are the exceptions in the hobbits race.

Rodrian

meagloth said:

My condolences about the hobbit movie.

Couldn't agree with you more

SethDavis said:

Merry and Pippin would get along great with Tas.

Started to thinking, that Tas would find a pretty similar ground with Glint too ^^

BillyYank

johntyl said:

SethDavis said:

Merry and Pippin would get along great with Tas, though kender are chronically afflicted with wanderlust and hobbits in general never leave home.

But the Baggins are afflicted with wanderlust too, but i guess they are the exceptions in the hobbits race.

Actually, it the Tooks that are affected by wanderlust. The Baggins are staid, stay-at-home types. Bilbo is a Took on his mother's side, and Frodo doesn't want to leave, he gets forced into it.

johntyl

BillyYank said:

Actually, it the Tooks that are affected by wanderlust. The Baggins are staid, stay-at-home types. Bilbo is a Took on his mother's side, and Frodo doesn't want to leave, he gets forced into it.

Ah, thanks for the correction!