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Trap abuse

AntonAnton Member, Moderator, Mobile Tester Posts: 513
edited November 2012 in Original BG2 Bugs
Current behavior
Traps may be set around your soon-to-be enemy while he is still "blue".
You may also sleep and set even more traps.

Expected behavior
1) When trap is set at someone's feet he should react as if you have attacked him.
2) Traps should vanish after sleep.

Post edited by Balquo on

Comments

  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    edited September 2012
    The NPC reaction aspect is partly being addressed by new dialog scripting changes for NPCs (likely post-release, but very comprehensive) so that enemy NPCs are more proactive about engaging you.

    But are you saying that there should be some sort of proximity check and any trap placed nearby should trigger them to Enemy() red circles? Seems a bit too clairvoyant of them- at least since the traps are supposed to be invisible to them. The sleep exploit sounds like an issue, but it also seems a bit too off-putting that the traps are gone by snoozing since only a triggering should dislodge them. It's not as if they dissolve.

    Anyway, it still may warrant addressing somehow at some point...

    Anton
  • GriegGrieg Member Posts: 507
    Maybe there should be maximum number of traps set per character, so during the rest you are prepared for ambush and it would also solve the problem of overuse of traps.
    Bhryaen said:

    The sleep exploit sounds like an issue, but it also seems a bit too off-putting that the traps are gone by snoozing since only a triggering should dislodge them. It's not as if they dissolve.

    But character doesn't have magically appearing new traps to be set, but rather use the old ones. So when you want set new trap the oldest one simply disappear as if the old trap would be reused.

  • Fake_SketchFake_Sketch Member Posts: 217
    edited September 2012
    OH NOES. I always do this!
    I always put traps till the game notifies me I've put to many in the map, maybe we should just lower (A LOT, like to 1/4th) the amount of traps we can put in a map.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,419
    Part of this is moot until we wrap up the flaky innate triggers I mentioned over yonder. Saladrex in WK is actually supposed to go hostile if you lay traps around him, but the busted SpellCastInnate trigger prevents it from working.

    There's already a hardcoded limit of seven traps (Tweaks has a component to disable it).

    Bhryaen
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 554
    I'd have a problem with this because there are times when you should legitimately be able to do it. Take the Shadow Dragon in BG2. You have a wardstone which prevents it from detecting you in any way unless you directly attack it. If that's not the perfect opportunity to set up an ambush then I don't know what is.

    Aedan
  • kszatankszatan Member Posts: 8
    BUT, when you summon some creatures then Shadow Dragon dispels them immidiately. So, it seems that only heroes are invisible, not their toys.

    Anton
  • CaerdonCaerdon Member Posts: 10
    You should not be able to place traps on top of each other. This would prevent the most egregious abuse.

    Anton
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,299
    well you can only lay down 7 traps at a time in ToB, unlike in SoA without ToB installed you could lay down a billion if you really wanted to, but i kinda like that idea that if you rest they disappear, but then how would i kill ALL the cowled wizards at level 9-11 so then i dont have to worry about casting spells in town? :)

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited September 2012
    CamDawg said:

    Part of this is moot until we wrap up the flaky innate triggers I mentioned over yonder. Saladrex in WK is actually supposed to go hostile if you lay traps around him, but the busted SpellCastInnate trigger prevents it from working.

    There's already a hardcoded limit of seven traps (Tweaks has a component to disable it).

    I was about to say the same. :)

    @CamDawg Is it possible to do the reverse of that tweak and impose a more severe limit? Even 3-4 traps in the same area would be more than enough imo. Not to mention that concealing tons of traps in the same small area makes no sense.

  • SharnSharn Member Posts: 188
    A 200lb man killing a 20 ton dragon with a weapon that would be no more annoying to it then a splinter doesn't make sense either, seven traps is probably fine, I personally would like to set more if I was able too.

    The game was already set up so the traps could not be on top of each other, maybe they could make the distance between them greater, but at low levels a rogue is more likely to hurt themselves setting a trap then actually setting it, so its pretty balanced in its own right.

    I realize that resting and setting more traps can exploit some encounters to be easier then intended, but exploits by their very definition are cheats, if people want to cheat you cant stop them, if you disable a possible exploit they will add it in with a mod or find a different way to cheat, changing it is unecessary.

    sarevok57
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,419
    Demivrgvs said:


    @CamDawg Is it possible to do the reverse of that tweak and impose a more severe limit? Even 3-4 traps in the same area would be more than enough imo. Not to mention that concealing tons of traps in the same small area makes no sense.

    It's hardcoded, so we'd have to get the devs involved. Tweaks gets around it by changing the projectile names of the traps, which is what the engine actually counts.

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,326
    Shall I file an externalization request for the amount of traps that can be set?

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,419
    Sure, though I'd put it well down the priority list. If it's not there already you could also include an adjustable summons cap (regular and celestial).

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,326
    edited September 2012
    Will do.

    All items in the Master Thread of Externalization Requests will likely be implemented post-ship.

    EDIT: Done.

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    FYI - Summons can exceed the hard coded trap limit so a Fighter/Mage (for example) using Simulcrum can lay out as many traps as she wants and can rest and repeat as many times as desired.

    This is the same problem with exceeding the summons limit by using Projected Image or Simulcrum.

  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    you know, part of the reason i played this game was because i could find ways to do things like what AHF is saying. If you take all the stuff out to follow a hard set of rules, the game will lose it's fun, and i'll stick to the old BG2 and shelf these EE editions.

    The limits in place are fine. If you think they're too high, don't use the max allowed. But don't force others down to what you think is 'fair' in a fantasy game.

    bbear
  • pakbgeepakbgee Member Posts: 31
    I think this is more like a nerf than a bug fix.
    And seriously, don't nerf the single player game, if you don't feel like doing something, then DONT do it.
    No one is forcing you to power game. and You shouldn't force your point of view on others either.

    *Stay out of my game* :)

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