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Half-elven Fighter-Mage

LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
In a BG:EE game how would you play this race/class in the following aspects?:

weapons profs
equipment
spellbook

There are a number of approaches. One choice is whether to melee vs. use the bow. If meleeing, do you melee without armor in order to spellcast? Do you then dual-wield? Which weapons do you specialize in? Which spells do you memorize? How do you integrate spells and martial combat? Which enchanted items do you equip the character with?

I know a lot of players will prefer to build a human dual-classed Kensai-Mage. But I'm not a fan of dual-classing. (Too long to wait to get the original class skills back for my taste, and I don't particularly like to power-level, etc.)

I have my own idea of where I'm probably headed, but I would love to hear how others would approach playing this race/multi-class. Thanks!
Post edited by Lemernis on
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Comments

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    The first thing I do when I make a half-elf anything is reroll and make a gnome.

    That said, I usually go for longswords. They are just really versatile. Scimitars are good, too, if you go good-aligned and murder Drizzt.

    If it was just BG2, I'd say katanas all day long because Dak'kon's Zarth Blade and the Celestial Fury are just silly overpowered in the hands of a fighter/mage. We'll have to wait and see what kind of Katanas we get for BG:EE still.

    The level 1 spell "Armor" is your friend. It's basically like wearing regular chain mail for 9 hours. Ranged, melee. Doesn't matter. Use it. You only ever need one preparation of it per day. Chances are if you fight something that can dispel it, you'll be resting right after the fight anyway.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    I would honestly play it unarmored (or whatever armour or robe doesnt hinder spell casting) with all my level 4 slots taken up by stone skin and all level 2 taken up by mirror image.
    I would memorise a lot of defensive and combat oriented spells and immunities, preferably ones with good durations, but in combat itself if would mainly be melee fighting, just using buffs and so on before hand.
    The only excepetion would be vs mages I would take to time to cast breach or w/e to get through thier protections.
    Also, it's important to take into account whether you are soloing. This build above is specified for that. If not the you can pretty much choose what you want to do and it will work out fine.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Just 1 question: why not elf? You'd get more benefits. If it is for a roleplayin reason Ok then :)
    To answer your question: at first I'd put profs in long sword or scimitars but still use Magic Missiles and bow (without proficencies), staying at distance. You know...kiting in BG1 is THE tactic.
    Later on pick long swords/scimitars and dual-wield.
    As for armors, always keep one with you. To avoid risks don't go in melee until you get Mirror Image. Later on, when you also get Stone Skin, you can definitely say bb to your bow tactic.
    At that point you can also cast PfE, Blur, Mirror Image, Haste, Stone Skin and THEN put an armor on.
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited September 2012
    There's two ways of playing it:

    You can basicly start using the fighter aspect of this multi, wearing armor and using the first grade only to identify and throwing in an occasional sleep/blind spell.
    When reaching the second spell grade, make sure you get good bracers of AC fast. As you've got quite a decent THAC0, you can make use of ghoul grip. Other than that, always keep a nice plate armor in your backpack, so that you can swap in the real armor for fights you don't need spellcasting for (like 99% of fights in BG1 lowlevel content).
    Basicly, until reaching the 4th spell grade, you will play your fighter/mage like a fighter, just unequipping the armor for certain fights where you can use your spells for more benefit.
    This multi makes sense playing it melee when reaching the 4th spellgrade and stoneskin becomes available. From this point on, play with bracers of AC only and use your touch and cc spells to take out your enemies and beat them to death in melee.
    I gotta say this style of play makes no that much sense in BG1, as you simply won't reach the required levels early enough to have a real use from this class.
    It totally shines in BG2, though, where all the melee enhancement spells and protection spells kick in.

    For the ranged build, simply select profiencies in bows and archer the shit out of every enemy you see, occasionally throwing in some spells where you need them (magic missile is awesome for canceling enemy spellcasters; other than that, cc and dispel spells are probably the way to go).


    I personally think a dualclassing (as a human) this makes more sense than actual multiclassing as you gain the most benefits of your fighter on the first 7 levels (additional attacks, weapon profiency, weapon types that can be used, hitpoints) - after that, you pretty much only gain more THAC0 - especially when the 10th level is reached and you don't gain any hit dies anymore (just the plain constitution bonus).
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @SpaceInvader

    It's the very first PC build I used to complete BG1 a dozen years ago. I didn't use the character very well in that run-through. I would like to go back to it and 'get it right' for nostalgia's sake what with the re-release of the game.

    When I created the character I didn't realize that a Fighter-Mage can't cast in armor. So I ended up either meleeing and barely using magic, or using the bow a lot.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Thanks for the suggestions so far, as even though I have played the game countless times, I'm always amazed at what I learn from other players.

    I'm a bit of a RP fanatic. So although the game mechanics allow the donning of armor in the midst of combat I don't think I can bring myself to do it, lol.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Hehe I can imagine!
    Maybe they put one soft elven armor in this enhanced edition, but that's not a big problem anyway.
    As @Zwiebelchen, I'd go for a human fighter dualed mage. But unlike him I'll dual at lvl13, to have 2 base attacks and 8 prof points (5 in the weapon and 3 in dual-wield).
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Oh yeah, that's right! Rumor has it that elven chainmail will be available other than by killing Drizzt (which this character would not do). So that will make a difference, for sure.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Drizzt's armor is not elven chain. You couldn't cast spells while it was equipped. You could still stealth in it, though. It's the best armor for rangers and fighter/thieves because of it.

    Although I usually had it equipped on Viconia or some other low strength NPC
  • ProdigyProdigy Member Posts: 3

    Although I usually had it equipped on Viconia or some other low strength NPC

    For Viconia Ankheg's Plate would be better, since she can wear it too :p
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    @sandmanCCL

    Ah, right. It's been a long time.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Prodigy said:

    Although I usually had it equipped on Viconia or some other low strength NPC

    For Viconia Ankheg's Plate would be better, since she can wear it too :p
    Yep,
    Mithril Chain: base AC 1, +2bonus vs slashing, -2 penality vs crushing
    Ankheg's Plate: base AC 1, +3bonus vs slashing, +1 bonus vs piercing, +1 bonus vs missile
  • serialiesserialies Member Posts: 45
    In BG1 i found it too hard to play fighter mage (solo), cause the level cap meant you didn't get that many spells and ultimately did not offset the difference between a level 7 fighter and a level 3-4ish fighter (IMO). Course, you can stock up on scrolls, but i found its too easy to get interrupted during spellcasting.
    This is solo btw, so it'll prob be fine with other party members

    In BG2 with elven chain and increased level cap its more practical, you have lots of defensive spells like mirror image, stoneskin, etc which greatly helps the fighter aspect of things, crowd control like glitterdust, sleep, hold person, charm, etc, which is useful (which you should be able to cast while under the effects of mirror image, stoneskin, etc + the AC from fighter). furthermore, stuff like magic missile and at (much later levels) comet etc (fast casting spells) lets you interrupt other spell casters and also if needed quickly clear an area. contingencies help lots. Also, haste improved haste will make you a god, dont forget you'll get access to whirlwind too. You dont really need that much STR, for me, 12 was good enough (to get the 90 weight capacity). The rest was int and con/wis, charisma 10, dex 9.

    I used quarterstaff n sling, cause i could put 2 prof from mage, and the rest from fighter (be slightly more point conservative). Plus, staffs were pretty good in BG2 IIRC, and so were slings (if you got bonus merchants) + with haste you can run around and sling people to death without getting hurt, took a while though, slow spell helped heaps.

    Will say though, i was resting heaps solo, if it was real life, my char would be sleeping for about 18 hours in a day.
  • Bynary_FissionBynary_Fission Member Posts: 202
    edited September 2012
    Ahh, the Fighter/Mage. My favorite combo. This is generally how I start out a game of BG2 with this class combo:

    Fighter/Mass Multi-class:

    -3 profs in Two-Weapon fighting, specialization in scimitars (then whatever else strikes my fancy)
    -The best in the game, of course. My character deserves the finest Baldur's Gate has to offer, don't you know?
    -I generally don't worry about this, since I typically keep potions of Mind focusing/Genius on hand in case I find spell scrolls my character's 18-level intelligence can't learn natively.

    My typical plan is to acquire the Amulet of Power and Ring of Protection +2 ASAP. I also go for the Robe of Vecna (cheese ftw), Usuno's Blade in Watcher's Keep Level 1 (not as hard as you think) and any of the items available in Trademeet since a lot of awesome stuff can be found there (such as a cloak that gives you blue and boosted saves (I forget the name) and the Belt of Inertial Barrier). Furthermore you can get spells such as Protection from Magical Energy, Improved Haste (x2 attacks) and Protection from Magical Weapons. (!!!)

    Spellwise, you're better off starting with spells such as Mirror Image, Ghost Armor and Haste. Hold is also a valuable spell, as the enemies in the beginning of the game succumb to it easily. I also recommend Melf's Acid Arrow, Lightning Bolt, Find Familiar (those extra HP are a godsend) and Skull Trap (it's less of a party-killer than fireball and it has no damage cap).

    Katanas (Celestial fury alone makes this worth investing in), long swords, bastard swords, flails (Flail of Ages!) and Two-Handed Swords are also good weapon slots to invest in. Personally I pick one way of fighting (Two Handed, Two Weapon, etc) and focus on placing slots in those styles - if you develop a specific area you can fight extremely effectively with your spells protecting you as you fight. Just my personal opinion - I fight with two weapons so I always put 3 slots in Two Weapon Style every time.


    Just a few pointers. :)
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited September 2012
    Lemernis said:

    In a BG:EE game how would you play this race/class in the following aspects?:

    weapons profs
    equipment
    spellbook

    There are a number of approaches. One choice is whether to melee vs. use the bow. If meleeing, do you melee without armor in order to spellcast? Do you then dual-wield? Which weapons do you specialize in? Which spells do you memorize? How do you integrate spells and martial combat? Which enchanted items do you equip the character with?

    I know a lot of players will prefer to build a human dual-classed Kensai-Mage. But I'm not a fan of dual-classing. (Too long to wait to get the original class skills back for my taste, and I don't particularly like to power-level, etc.)

    I have my own idea of where I'm probably headed, but I would love to hear how others would approach playing this race/multi-class. Thanks!


    The first character I beat SoA with was an Elven Fighter/Mage.

    In BG1, a Fighter/Mage/Thief has the advantage though, since you're comparing pure 7 fighter, 7 mage, or 8 thief vs multi 6f/6m vs 5f/5m/6t. It's really in BG2 where a huge gap occurs, since the exp for levels turns into a static 250k for fighter, 375k for mage, and 220k for thief. It's like F/M at 500k XP. He's effectively pure F-1 and pure M-1.

    With thief levels, you don't have to worry about stray arrows, and can get the drop on enemies. Being able to stealth is such a huge advantage, not to mention you can reach a triple backstab even with a f/m/t in BG1, and x5 in SoA.

    The Fighter/Mage is tricky because if you want to cast any spells, you can't wear even leather, which I found very annoying. Also, with thief, spell selection is easier, since you can utilize those invisibility spells for major advantages. That being said, when you finally get Improved Haste, you will slaughter.

    For F/M, I dual wielded longswords (you'll eventually reach 8 to 10 attacks with Improved Haste, and can attack during Timestop). With a F/M/T I would go longswords (or shortswords), and longbows, because while there is a +2 longsword and +3 shortsword and I like to focus on one huge hit, I also like the utility of the bow (arrows of dispelling, biting, slaying, detonation) when combined with stealth scouting.

    That being said, F/M/T will never reach level 9 spells even at 8 million xp (ToB cap), whereas a F/M will, so it's tricky. Personally, I find the few extra spells from a higher mage level doesn't justify skipping thief altogether.

    I must say though, F/M and F/M/T are both iconic elven class combinations, and both are epic. Also, in 2nd ed rules, all standard elves (high elves and wood elves, basically) have natural stealth in forest areas, effectively making even the common elf fighter a F/T while in the woods (75% stealth or something like that). This extends to the F/M, meaning that F/M/T really only has the advantage of being able to stealth in other environs, as well as having an aptitude for thievery. But you're a half elf, so none of this applies to you.

    As for spellbook, I'd imagine anything that augments your fighter abilities is usually best, since in that respect, you can surpass a pure fighter. That's what I did anyways, since with mage you have access to so many protections and combat enhancements.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853

    Drizzt's armor is not elven chain. You couldn't cast spells while it was equipped. You could still stealth in it, though. It's the best armor for rangers and fighter/thieves because of it.

    Although I usually had it equipped on Viconia or some other low strength NPC

    It also lets Bards pick pocket, so that's nice too.
  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    I can't be bothered to read any of this :D

    But aren't they adding in Elven chain mail into the game? That could be your armour.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @Jaxbudgie

    No, reportedly the mithril chainmail allows thieves to stealth but does not allow not mages to spellcast. That matches my memory, FWIW. That's a detail I had forgotten having been away from the game for four years, but SandmanCCL seems well versed in all this.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    @Lemernis: They said in the AMAA that they were adding in some form of elven chain to BG:EE.

    But Drizzt's Mithril Chain +4 still bars arcane spells. Just his doesn't count.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @sandmanCCL

    Hmm, in the lore of the Forgotten Realms is there any known elven chainmail that allows mages to cast spells?
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Well yeah. It's a common enough thing that it's not like one specific piece of gear, but simply an "enchantment" type thing. It's a modifier on gear like "Mighty" for bows or "Keen" for swords.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Well, I'll hold out some hope for some such enchantment on said chainmail then I guess. But if enchanted at all, it could be enchanted any which way. Thanks for the feedback.
  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    @Lemernis mate ... have you played BG2? There are Elven chainmails falling from the sky, did you never equip Aerie/Imoen/Nalia/Jan in one?
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Oh Lord, yes, lol. Haven't played the game in 4 years, though, so a lot's hazy in my memory.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    @HugoRune

    Thanks for this excellent and well thought-out overview!

    Not sure yet if I'll take this PC on to BG2:EE, so I'm most interested in your feedback about BG1.

    I will most likely dual-wield Varscona and Scimitar +1 (eventually +2). But I also wonder how it would work out to split profs between quarterstaff and bow... There are some pretty darned powerful staffs in the game, with high THACO bonuses and damage. Might be kind of fun to see if I can bob and weave using both the bow and quarterstaff, eg, fall back momentarily and fire the bow, spellcast, close in and use staff, etc. Might get a bit dizzying though.

    I'll definitely pick up both Rings of Wizardry (IIRC, there's two in the game, right?). For other equipment:

    Robe of the Archmagi
    Amulet of Metaspell Influence
    Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise
    Golden Girdle
    Boots of Avoidance

    And beyond armor buffing spells, spell-wise I always use Sleep and Horror a lot--although I'll have Neera to cast those too. I use mostly disabling spells such as Hold and Charm (or variations thereof). Absolutely love Ghoul Touch. Emotion: Hoplessness, Slow, Blind, Chaos. That sort of thing.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    If followers of this thread had to choose profs for a Fighter-Mage between

    a) dual-wielding swords (safest)
    b) quarterstaff and bow (unorthodox, I know--I actually have no idea how that would work out)
    c) some other weapons profs

    which would you pick?
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    You know, Quarterstaff sounds pretty awesome. There are some seriously badass staves that don't get used to their full potential because wizards don't typically beat bad guys about the head and shoulders. This means that a Fighter/Mage, Rogue/Mage, maybe Fighter/Druid really only makes full use of these things.
  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    Also, I wouldn't limit yourself to weapon sets that can be easily swapped between in mid-combat.
    Proper weapon sets are being developed and were set to be included in a patch after the release, I'm hoping now that the game is being pushed back, that weapons sets will come with the launch date.

    What I mean by proper weapon sets - for example take Imoen, you can have her equipped with a shortbow one moment, then instantly swap out to sword and buckler the next, all without inventory arranging.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    From an RP-ish perspective I can almost see quickly swapping a bow for a one handed weapon or a two-handed weapon such as a staff, spear, or greatsword... at least maybe once per fight... It would depend on how the bow and other weapon are secured on the body, of course... there would almost have to be a way of securing them both somehow on the upper back, I would think...

    But switching out from bow to a one-handed weapon plus shield would be rather tough in the blink of an eye. I know the game mechanics and GUI allow it. But I don't think I would use that feature if it would be almost physically impossible to 'actually' do in that world.

    Hope that makes sense. That's just me being an anal RPer though.
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