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Why isn't it released as a stand-alone title?

justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
Before I repeat my question, I would like to admit, that I am a person that always tends to think everyone always operates with the best intentions in mind, which is not different this time around. However, the question which is the title of this discussion popped up in my mind, which I'm certain there is an answer for on some artistic/technical level.

So, why is Siege of Dragonspear being released as an expansion?

Transporting the Ssfe-Files from one game to another as is done between BG: EE and BG II: EE would be easy enough and wouldn't limit customers to purchase from the same retailer they purchased BG: EE from originally, if the game would have been made its "own" game; A Baldur's Gate 1.5, if you'd like to call it that (unfortunately, I don't believe there's a roman numeral for that, so maybe that's part of the reason why :wink:).

I would mainly be interested on a statement from one of the developers on this, yet speculation is always fun, so everyone who has a theory is certainly welcome. :smile:

Comments

  • DetroitRedWings25DetroitRedWings25 Member Posts: 244
    Because it's an expansion, it continues the story of BG1 (party carries over with full inventory/level stats etc.) no fresh start like in BG2. Also the playtime which I think they said is something like 25 hours? while impressive still doesn't have the same scope as BG1 or BG2 in their entirety.
  • justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
    @DetroitRedWings25 It might be that it doesn't have a fresh start, but I think carrying over items and such between two games would have been no problem. I remember there was an exploit in an earlier version of BG II: EE, where you could pause the game just before the first Irenicus Soliloquy and access your inventory with all the items from the imported save file still in place (generally with the goal of dropping them on the floor, so when the game checked for removing them, it wouldn't find any and you could afterwards pick them up).

    I just thought that there were apparent advantages to a stand alone title. Like, for example, it being more suited for mobile devices. To play Siege, this way, you'll have to have two games installed, which takes up more space. Admittedly, mobile is not the main audience this game is tailored for. The stand-alone game I pictured would have been no different in scope from what SoD actually will be, it would have only been different in this "small" technicality (I'm not trying to sound ironic by marking small, I just don't have an extensive understanding of how big of a difference it would have actually been for the Devs making the game).

    I do understand that contracts are contracts and wizards are wizards (of the coast). While, as an answer that isn't very in depth, understandably business matters are not very voluntarily discerned in greater detail and are anyway just tedious for most people (myself included). The answer is satisfactory. :smile:
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    I thought SoD was 19.99 but when I go to buy it through the 19.99 link, the only option is 39.99 which includes BGEE which I already have on GoG ,Steam and android. Am I missing something obvious?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited March 2016
    Fiach said:

    I thought SoD was 19.99 but when I go to buy it through the 19.99 link, the only option is 39.99 which includes BGEE which I already have on GoG ,Steam and android. Am I missing something obvious?

    I just checked and it looked fine to me. Make sure you are logged in. It should be purchasable from the button at the top right of this page then.

    https://www.beamdog.com/products/baldurs-gate-siege-of-dragonspear
  • lolienlolien Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,108
    If i read right, pre-order works only with the beamdog version of BGEE.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    elminster said:

    Fiach said:

    I thought SoD was 19.99 but when I go to buy it through the 19.99 link, the only option is 39.99 which includes BGEE which I already have on GoG ,Steam and android. Am I missing something obvious?

    I just checked and it looked fine to me. Make sure you are logged in. It should be purchasable from the button at the top right of this page then.

    https://www.beamdog.com/products/baldurs-gate-siege-of-dragonspear
    Nope, still 39.99 on the top right, is it because I have the steam version? Maybe the platforms are mutually exclusive due to drm.

    Thanks for the reply :)

  • justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
    edited March 2016
    @Fiach We meet again. :smile: As I understood it there is a version for 39.99 called the Digital Deluxe Edition with the Soundtrack of both BG original, BG EEs additions by Sam Hulick and SoDS Original Score. It doesn't, however include the base game. Siege of Dragonspear is 19.99 (see elminsters link). Maybe that's what went wrong for you? You should be able to purchase just SoD, i hope for you... I've read in the FAQ (again, so here's the link http://www.siegeofdragonspear.com , just scroll down half of the page):
    Q: If I buy on Beamdog.com will I get a Steam key?
    Yes. After the release of the game you can contact support@beamdog.com to request a Steam key.

    Hope that helps you. :smile:

    I think it's another flimsiness that could have been avoided: forcing people to repurchase from the same distributor and for the same device. I, for one, would avoid the App Store after past events and have to either repurchase the game, or deal with Apples BS again, which I luckily avoided by buying IWD: EE Elsweyr.

    Repurchase it will be.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    justtravelinthrough said:

    @Fiach We meet again. :smile: As I understood it there is a version for 39.99 called the Digital Deluxe Edition with the Soundtrack of both BG original, BG EEs additions by Sam Hulick and SoDS Original Score. It doesn't, however include the base game. Siege of Dragonspear is 19.99 (see elminsters link). Maybe that's what went wrong for you? You should be able to purchase just SoD, i hope for you... I've read in the FAQ (again, so here's the link http://www.siegeofdragonspear.com , just scroll down half of the page):
    Q: If I buy on Beamdog.com will I get a Steam key?
    Yes. After the release of the game you can contact support@beamdog.com to request a Steam key.

    Hope that helps you. :smile:

    I think it's another flimsiness that could have been avoided: forcing people to repurchase from the same distributor and for the same device. I, for one, would avoid the App Store after past events and have to either repurchase the game, or deal with Apples BS again, which I luckily avoided by buying IWD: EE Elsweyr.

    Repurchase it will be.

    Hi mate! :)

    No, clicking the Standard Edition Pre Order Now 19.99 link only brings me to a 39.99 version that includes BGEE. Thanks anyway :)
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,181
    Fiach said:

    justtravelinthrough said:

    @Fiach We meet again. :smile: As I understood it there is a version for 39.99 called the Digital Deluxe Edition with the Soundtrack of both BG original, BG EEs additions by Sam Hulick and SoDS Original Score. It doesn't, however include the base game. Siege of Dragonspear is 19.99 (see elminsters link). Maybe that's what went wrong for you? You should be able to purchase just SoD, i hope for you... I've read in the FAQ (again, so here's the link http://www.siegeofdragonspear.com , just scroll down half of the page):
    Q: If I buy on Beamdog.com will I get a Steam key?
    Yes. After the release of the game you can contact support@beamdog.com to request a Steam key.

    Hope that helps you. :smile:

    I think it's another flimsiness that could have been avoided: forcing people to repurchase from the same distributor and for the same device. I, for one, would avoid the App Store after past events and have to either repurchase the game, or deal with Apples BS again, which I luckily avoided by buying IWD: EE Elsweyr.

    Repurchase it will be.

    Hi mate! :)

    No, clicking the Standard Edition Pre Order Now 19.99 link only brings me to a 39.99 version that includes BGEE. Thanks anyway :)
    Since SoD is an expansion, the pre-order is exclusive to the BeamDog client and you don't own a base game there, it naturally prompts you to buy the base game, which is required to play SoD. When the game is released, you will be able to buy SoD on Steam for 19.99.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Pecca said:

    Fiach said:

    justtravelinthrough said:

    @Fiach We meet again. :smile: As I understood it there is a version for 39.99 called the Digital Deluxe Edition with the Soundtrack of both BG original, BG EEs additions by Sam Hulick and SoDS Original Score. It doesn't, however include the base game. Siege of Dragonspear is 19.99 (see elminsters link). Maybe that's what went wrong for you? You should be able to purchase just SoD, i hope for you... I've read in the FAQ (again, so here's the link http://www.siegeofdragonspear.com , just scroll down half of the page):
    Q: If I buy on Beamdog.com will I get a Steam key?
    Yes. After the release of the game you can contact support@beamdog.com to request a Steam key.

    Hope that helps you. :smile:

    I think it's another flimsiness that could have been avoided: forcing people to repurchase from the same distributor and for the same device. I, for one, would avoid the App Store after past events and have to either repurchase the game, or deal with Apples BS again, which I luckily avoided by buying IWD: EE Elsweyr.

    Repurchase it will be.

    Hi mate! :)

    No, clicking the Standard Edition Pre Order Now 19.99 link only brings me to a 39.99 version that includes BGEE. Thanks anyway :)
    Since SoD is an expansion, the pre-order is exclusive to the BeamDog client and you don't own a base game there, it naturally prompts you to buy the base game, which is required to play SoD. When the game is released, you will be able to buy SoD on Steam for 19.99.
    Thanks for the confirmation Pecca, I alluded to the same earlier when I wondered was it platform incompatibility, cheers :)

  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,181
    If you really want to pre-order, you may send an e-mail to support@beamdog.com and ask them to.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    I'm out of money right now, and it's a shame because the collector edition seems quite nice, though it lacks a figurine for the price
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    @Fiach , that's a safety feature. When I clicked on pre-order, just minutes after it appeared, the site allowed me to buy the 19.99 expansion. It was only later I found out it wouldn't work with my GOG version.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    Does the preorder give any bonuses (like a discount) compared to the normal release?
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Pecca said:

    If you really want to pre-order, you may send an e-mail to support@beamdog.com and ask them to.

    Thanks Pecca, what I'm going to do is wait for the android version, after going back to the PC version I find that mobility is more important to me currently, thanks again :)

    @BillyYank , hi mate, yes I can see how that would smart. You probably know this already, but for other readers,
    Beamdog are VERY good with refunds, I bought BGEE at release and it hated my ATI card and I got a refund immediately (GO BEAMDOG!). :)
    Thanks :)
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    Fiach said:

    @BillyYank , hi mate, yes I can see how that would smart. You probably know this already, but for other readers,
    Beamdog are VERY good with refunds, I bought BGEE at release and it hated my ATI card and I got a refund immediately (GO BEAMDOG!). :)
    Thanks :)

    Yeah, I already sent an email to support, I don't expect a problem.

    Of course, now I've got this little voice in my head whispering that the digital deluxe edition isn't that much more expensive.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    BillyYank said:

    Fiach said:

    @BillyYank , hi mate, yes I can see how that would smart. You probably know this already, but for other readers,
    Beamdog are VERY good with refunds, I bought BGEE at release and it hated my ATI card and I got a refund immediately (GO BEAMDOG!). :)
    Thanks :)

    Yeah, I already sent an email to support, I don't expect a problem.

    Of course, now I've got this little voice in my head whispering that the digital deluxe edition isn't that much more expensive.
    Well in all fairness, while I whinged about the price of the CE, looking back at BG 2 original release, it cost about 40_50 quid back then, so when you consider what you get, it's a fair price after all this time, the main gripe is the way the shipping inflates the price so significantly for EU players, so a decent compromise is the DDE I think :)
  • PhillipDaiglePhillipDaigle Member Posts: 654
    Amber_Scott said:

    The pragmatic answer is that the contract we negotiated with WotC for SoD was for an expansion.

    This is basically it. We had initially pushed for a stand-alone release but it didn't work out.
  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 184
    PhillipDaigle said:

    Amber_Scott said:

    The pragmatic answer is that the contract we negotiated with WotC for SoD was for an expansion.

    This is basically it. We had initially pushed for a stand-alone release but it didn't work out.
    This this should bolded in bright neon lights for any and all complaints questioning as to why SoD is not a stand-alone release.
  • AbelAbel Member Posts: 785
    Let's hope it's not going to hinder sales...
  • PhillipDaiglePhillipDaigle Member Posts: 654
    It will sell less because the DLC attach rate for any game isn't great when compared to stand-alone releases, but based on our initial observations it will still be a great success.
  • justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
    And, in my case, they'll sell an additional base game because of how things went. :smile: Still, I am glad to here stand-alone was what Beamdog initially had in mind.

    While I was initially a bit bitter because of how things went, I now thought it over and just see it as an opportunity to support an awesome game company. Todays AAA-Titles often offer way less than 25+ game hours (the new portion for me, not counting for BG: EE) and two Soundtracks for 60 bucks and I know for a fact I'll enjoy SoD infinitely more.

    Plus I just rolled a 97 Half-Orc Kensai, which also doesn't hurt my euphoria towards the end of the month. :smile:
  • Wonderboy2402Wonderboy2402 Member Posts: 121
    edited March 2016
    Arunsun said:

    I'm out of money right now, and it's a shame because the collector edition seems quite nice, though it lacks a figurine for the price

    How cool would it be for A BGee CE if they did a Sarevok statue like the concept art in the boxed copy of the original game? A stone statue standing on the symbol of Bhaal in this pose or this one. http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/5/51/Sarevok_in_armor.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070509042430

  • MonkeyLungsMonkeyLungs Member Posts: 44
    PhillipDaigle said:

    It will sell less because the DLC attach rate for any game isn't great when compared to stand-alone releases, but based on our initial observations it will still be a great success.

    Hopefully because of the fanbase for this game, you get a higher attach rate. Baldur's Gate has a way of bringing people back.

    Just from playing the BGEE beta for about an hour I can already feel the goodness packed in to this release. Little subtle touches really make a difference. For instance that outline on the character models is something so simple and yet so awesome. New map awesome, new journal awesome for new players. New little convos for the tutors in Candlekeep awesome for new players ... my personal level of stoke for this is really off the charts. I'm probably not even being coherent.

    I hope the sales are better than you guys initially hoped for. I wish you the best, you deserve it!

    Going to eat some oatmeal then roll a Shaman.

    BTW 2.0 beta works fine with custom portraits if anyone cares about that, I know custom portraits have always been a big deal for me.
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