Paladin.
yksimalt
Member Posts: 115
So..
For the on-coming release of the BGEE expansion I was planning to make a new character to play through the whole saga.
I have never created a Paladin before and am interested to hear any tips regarding the class.
What weapons to choose, what are the weaknesses and strengths of the class, is there a certain foe the class is more suitable to handle etc etc.
Any 2-cents are appreciated.
Many thanks in advance
/A.
For the on-coming release of the BGEE expansion I was planning to make a new character to play through the whole saga.
I have never created a Paladin before and am interested to hear any tips regarding the class.
What weapons to choose, what are the weaknesses and strengths of the class, is there a certain foe the class is more suitable to handle etc etc.
Any 2-cents are appreciated.
Many thanks in advance
/A.
1
Comments
You'll need to roll high with a Paladin, because your Charisma soaks up a lot of points at character creation. Play them as a tank. I love Paladins, but I think the only reason to be one over a fighter is for pure role-play purposes. In BG2 look out for the Daystar Longsword, DragonSlayer Longsword and of course the Holy Avenger (2-Handed Sword).
I'd rcommend starting out with a longsword and shield so you have that extra AC against wolves and such.
There's a lot of undead across the saga so Undead Hunter isn't bad but it's the weakest of the kits mechanically.
The Cavalier is nice; it has resistance to fire which is a very common damage type (resistance to acid isn't a bad little bonus either). The bonuses vs. dragons and demons are nice as a lot of the toughest fights in the series fall under those categories. Immunity to Charm, Fear, Poison, and Morale Failure is exceptionally good as those are a wide swath of nasty conditions.
The Inquisitor is perhaps the strongest paladin kit; it edges out Cavalier because magic is so powerful and so prevalent in BG2. Their innate Dispel Magic (AT TWICE THEIR LEVEL) is very powerful and True Seeing is really powerful.
For weapons you want to focus on 2h swords. There's a paladin specific sword in BG2 that's a 2h sword. (Also don't kill the red dragon til you get the paladin quest to do so in BG2 or it'll break the quest although that may have changed in the EE).
If your paladin kit can use ranged weapons go with some kind of ranged weapon and 2h swords (crossbows and longbows are good). If it can't you used to be able to use throwing axes even if you went cavalier but they may have changed that.
BG1 start with ** in staffs and ** in two handed
Staffs don't break, you get a +1 in beregost quickly, and for RP it is the martial weapon of candlekeep. Get ** in greatswords next.
In BG2 get Carsomyr for Charname.
Cavaliers get 20% fire and acid resist. They are also immune to fear and poison. So mad out your resists.
By ToB you can be immune to fire, almost immune to acid/lightning/magic (that last one is the important one. You can quite easily get 85% magic resistance).
I also prefer Cavaliers over undead hunters because once you've dealt with vampires once they stop being scary. Hell...Anomen can clear Bodhi's nest by himself. You don't need undead hunter bonuses.
However Cavaliers get bonuses against all dragons (hello Fikraag) and demons/Devils (Hi watcher's keep). So I find his combat bonuses more useful.
He won't be a dwarven defender when it comes to tanking fighters, but he can be every mage's worst nightmare while still being more than tough enough to hang in the front lines.
My favorite of the four is the Cavalier. It's basically the paladin-classic, but moreso. Their immunities are quite strong, especially in BG1, and they end up extremely tanky once you consider their natural resistances, Carsomyr, lay-on-hands, and the Armor of Faith spell.
For proficiencies, I'm currently running a Cavalier who started with 2 in mace, 1 in dagger, and 1 in sword-and-shield. Went through all of BG1 with a mace-and-shield build, occasionally switching to throwing daggers for ranged combat (Cavaliers can't use dedicated ranged weapons, but they can use thrown melee weapons like throwing axes and throwing daggers). I plan to have 2 pips in two-handed sword by level 9, and one pip in two-handed weapon style by 12 (the second pip in two-handed style, imo, is almost entirely useless and can be delayed until after reaching 2 pips in dagger). This allows the character to tank very well in BG1, when AC is king and shields are powerful, and allows the character to deal nicely with undead at all parts of the saga, while still being able to switch to Carsomyr once it comes into play. Plus, the Stupifier is probably the best weapon in BG1, so those mace pips really pay off.
From an advice standpoint I'd say its probably a good idea to put towards at least one blunt weapon type (war hammers are probably the safest best for BGEE, flails are a good choice in BG2EE).
I rolled a 95 and went with max in STR, CON, DEX and CHA. Str was 18/95.
I try to roleplay so INT got 10 and WIS the rest.
I chose Undead hunter, and in the end it was between that and Cavalier.
Longsword, Bastard sword, Mace, and Two-weapon style.
Question: how much will I need my WIS in the end?
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Awesome stats roll. I agree all paladin kits are good. It might have been worth taking up great swords as well I think you can find a holy avenger in BG2 if memory serves me correctly. This will make you paladin almost unbeatable.
With the tomes in BG1 you can bump a 15 Wisdom to 18
Paladins do not get bonus spells from a high Wisdom and Wisdom doesn't give any bonus to saves or immunities against various effects as per PnP.
Which means that for a Paladin, Intelligence and Wisdom are exactly the same, they simply give a bonus to lore. Intelligence is still more useful as it can allow you to survive another hit from a mind flayer in BG2:EE, they drain 5 int per hit, so having 11 or 16 Int is good.
For the OP, since this is a complete-saga run, there is a solid paladin-specific bastard sword (The Purifier) in Watcher's Keep, so going bastard sword/sword and shield is a solid option as an alternative to the 2HS route. Looks like you're already on your way.
1. Pick Blackguard or Cavalier.
2. Get a Durlags Goblet from Durlags Tower (it heals you fully and has 20 charges).
3. Use it at your leisure (It's downside, a 12 hour panic is negated by your class choice; there's a helm which replaces the necessity of Step 1).
4. Once you have only a few uses left, sell it and repurchase it with 20 uses.
I'm not saying I did this, but... I did it once. Kinda fun.
What I'm really fond of (crossing over into BG II) is playing a paladin as almost indestructible tank. Once you get the HLA "Hardiness", simply stack it with "Armor of Faith" and the Defender of Easthaven Flail and you'll be at up to 85% resistance vs. slashing, crushing and piercing. Combine with a shield and you'll tank melee encounters all day.
My first SoD charname choice is down to cavalier with this party vs dwarven fighter/cleric...
The game mechanics have always been a bit of a mystery to me, since I play the game for the roleplay and these days also nostalgia.
Hence I have a few follow-up questions:
The Undead Hunter will never have access to Cleric/Priest spells?
In addition to Detect and Protection from evil, are there any other innate spells that develop with level?
Which NPC team members would complement the Undead Hunter well?
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I still like that sword though!
I like taking Viconia with paladins even if I have to mod the game to get evil PCs to stick around at high reputation because she'll romance human men (BG2) and I love a good redemption story.
But back to party comp:
You're a tank. You'll want one or two other tanks or backup tanks but it isn't a primary concern. You'll need spell casters and a thief.
1) PC Paladin (Primary Tank)
2) Jaheira (Backup Tank and Druid)
3) Khalid (Second Tank)
4) Viconia (or Branwen) (Cleric and Tertiary Tank)
5) Imoen (Thief dual to Mage)
6) Neera (Mage) (There are a few other mages you can pick from if you don't like her)
I picked from characters that are easy to recruit because they appear early on. this setup also packs in a lot of spell casting and a lot of muscle. Two Divine Casters (Druid/Fighter and Cleric) two Arcane casters (Thief/Mage and Wild Mage) and plenty of muscle (Paladin and Fighter for outright martial combat, Fighter/Druid as backup tank if you don't need her magic in a fight, and Cleric (Viconia's hp and strength are low but her dex is really high so she can hold off enemies by dint of simply not getting hit very often in ankheg armor and with a big shield if she has a +Str item equipped or a small shield otherwise).
1. Cavalier: a more traditional, holy knight that is probably the best representation of what a Paladin is truly all about. They are very solid. I have run one several times and you don't miss very much by losing ranged weapons - put a pip into axes and hurl them like crazy. But most of the time you'll be up close in melee. The bonus against draconic creatures is nice but the real draw of this kit is the immunities and resistances. Cavaliers are very powerful.
2. Blackguard: the anti-Paladin. These monstrosities are incredible. The first time I beat the enhanced edition, it was with a Blackguard on an evil playthrough. The poison weapon is incredible against casters or really just about anything! You can put a couple of pips into crossbows for the crossbow of speed, or you can do like I did and put them in darts for the extra attacks per round (good bye mages). The Aura of Despair becomes a handy ability to use later on and the immunity to level drain is very convenient. They are also immune to fear. Great kit. Insanely useful.
3. Inquisitor: In my opinion, the Inquisitor is by far the the best Paladin kit. True, he doesn't get lay on hands or Priest spells, but it's not like your Paladin takes the place of a Cleric. You are going to be running with a divine caster anyway, so having a Paladin with low levels spells isn't really that vital. But what does an Inquisitor get? An "I win" button to use against enemy casters throughout the entire saga! There is no way to put into words just how awesome the dispel x2 at speed factor 1 is. And true sight is good too. Did I mention it's immune to charm? Pick up a healer on the way and go with an Inquisitor. It's a freaking insanely powerful anti-caster kit and, in truth, put's the Wizard Slayer fighter kit to absolute shame.
Other than Detect Evil and Protection of Evil, Undead Hunters don't get any cool innate special abilities. Except, of course, the ones every PC gets in BG1, and the ones every warrior gets at very high levels.
CaptRory's advice on teammates is basically correct, although with that particular party you might spend a lot of time waiting for Imoen to get her thief skills back after she duals. I might be inclined to go with something like this instead:
1. PC Undead Hunter (tank)
2. Minsc (melee damage, off-tank)
3. Dynaheir (mage)
4. Imoen (thief dualed to mage)
5. Coran (thief, ranged damage)
6. Branwen (cleric, off-tank)
This is a bit less tanky than CaptRory's, and has a lot less healing, but it also has better thief coverage and better damage output (especially at range). Coran doesn't appear until a little ways into the main plot, but conveniently, he appears about the time you'll probably want to dual class Imoen, and his longbow damage is so fantastic that he's worth a spot in the party roster for the rest of the game.
In BG2, Minsc's racial enemy is vampire, so I'd imagine he'd get along well enough with the Undead Hunter.
On the other hand, who wants to play a Cavalier that doesn't even have a horse? It should be renamed to "Fallen Paladin" once the game starts, since the entire kit is a bloody lie right out the gate.
And what's with the Inquisitor? That should have been a Cleric kit. The Inquisitor can't be Lawful Neutral and can't torture people and burn down villages in order to ferret out the heretics without becoming a Cavalier...I mean Fallen Paladin. All I see is wasted potential for such a cool kit name.
Blackguard? Give me a break. He tries way, way too hard. "Oh, look at me, I'm a mortal fiend! I sacrifice chickens to demonic powers and wear all black all the time." He's an emo dork. The other evil characters can be cool and do their thing without having to have a kit name to emphasize just how evil they are. Kagain would knock the Blackguard's teeth out without even trying...but only if there's money in it.
You never go *full* Wizard Slayer. Wizard Slayer/Thief with UAI and Carsomyr would be awesome (too bad I don't have the patience to get there).
Edit: for some reason I can't post images anymore. Anyway.
The point is that the Inquisitor's job is to weed out heretical practitioners of magic. They will do whatever is required for the greater good. They are lawful in that power is vested unto them to do what is necessary - they have the authority and are willing to use it.
(Although, interestingly, much as we often exaggerate the goodness of historical knights, we also exaggerate the evilness of historical inquisitors. The Spanish Inquisition wasn't made of super nice people, but they were actually deployed in part to stop the people of Spain from performing the sort of tortures we now associate with the Inquisition, especially when those tortures were used to force conversions to Christianity.)
It is easy to turn your paladin into a tank and I recommend getting pips in war hammers and flails as well as two weapon style. Once you get to bg2ee you will want the Flail of the Ages and the Crom Faeyr and trust me it ain't fair to the other guy.
As far as the NPCs
Coran - I add the mod for bg2ee his Dex is 20 and ultimately he gets special abilities use any weapon and can use the Carsomir
Minsc - great tank and you can find the gauntlets of dexterity early give him a halberd or two handed sword too bad about Dynahir and that black bear
Janeira. Khalid has an unfortunate accident early
Imoen - stock her with traps and lock and switch her to Mage after level 7 Coran shows up about then
Neera - if you don't mind the occasional falling cow remember she gets all spells and each new level starts with 2. She is a very powerful Mage just light on hit points so get her early.