Early or late Imoen? Improving her detect traps/open locks.

zfarsh

I have done two playthroughs many many years ago, and I believe I have chosen Imoen over Nalia / Jan in my previous playthroughs. I had done many of the large / med quests before heading to rescue Imoen

But Imoen was 2 to 3 levels at least lower than Nalia. I want Imoen as support Mage / thief. Jan or Nalia will be filling in mean time till Imoen is joined.

1) would I benefit from early rescue to make her similar level as my team? I have never done so, What min quest do you recommend for this? Or regardless of getting her sooner or later, she will always be a few levels lower and I might as well get her later? Any recommendation to get her up in speed either way? Cause otherwise, I would do as she doesn't existed and I would do every quest I could then go to the next chapter. Or maybe something in between?

2) Imoen thieving, mainly detect traps and open locks, will still be on the weak side. I like the extra exp from doing these successfully I guess, and not sure I can pick pocket at all, but is secondary. Any tricks to get these levels up without installing anything extra? Any one time scrolls or spells? Any tricks like that done via a simulacum casting one time scrolls and thus reusing same scrolls all throughout? Or just potions, and if so, which and where?

Warning: Rambling below, skip if no feel like it...

Imoen thieving is higher than Nalia. I like both but I feel compelled to save Imoen, but honestly would have otherwise took both and aery and myself as sorcerer and 2 fighters if I could, but it will either be too easy at times (or boring and time consuming with spells), or impossible at others, I think anyways. 3 fighters give me some relax time to skip too much casting and pausing. I can do even only my sorce and aery, but I guess if I want, but I think 3 front liners should be enough so they can do job alone. But I had fun in the past with 3 mages (myself and 2 support), so thinking of continuing the tradition...

My fighters are keldorn, Jaheira, and Mazzy... So that is even more spell casting from Jaheira and front liners from either.

Jaheiras_Witness

Imoen has 95% Find Traps and 100% Open Locks. What is there to improve?! She is perfectly adequate as a thief all the way through, and you can give her potions like Mind Focusing (lasts 12 hours and stacks) if you need any further boosts to her skills.

You could try to rescue her early for XP parity, but I wouldn't sweat it...a couple of levels lower makes negligible difference and she'll get an XP bonus when you transition to ToB to get her level parity with the rest of your party.

prairiechicken

1. I would recommend going to spellhold asap if you intend to use imoen, you would want to minimize exp wasted on other chars(unless you are comfortable with one missing slot). You can go to spellhold as soon as you collect 15000 gold (although I like to pick up few extra important goodies on top of it). If you can clear vampire lair you can kill anything before underdark and then all the drow items are powerful enough for the chapter.

2. Imoen can pick all locks and traps in game(including ToB) wearing elven chain with penalties, with very very few exceptions. So I won't worry about the thieving skills.

jinxed75

I'm not really sure what you are asking for. The timing of Imoens rescue won't affect her thieving skills at all. She dualed to Mage at Levl7, and there is nothing to change that. It only determines how many Mage levels she's going to have.
So, if you feel like Imoen lacking a level or two compared to Nalia at this point in time is too much for your tastes, then go to Spellhold earlier.
If you are hoping to get a better thief by altering your rescue timing, then the answer is no. The only way to change something about her thieving skills in the game is the use of potions and items. There are quite a few. If that isn't enough for your taste, use the EEKeeper to add some thief levels after recruiting her in Spellhold.

Durenas

Imoen will either have 440,000 XP or 1.2 million, which is determined by your average party XP.

zfarsh

Anyone done it early? How do you feel about an can recommend?

Also, I need to get Mazzy and Keldorn, so I don't know if I need to do their quests, and that of Jaheira first before leaving, as I don't want them to suddenly leave party.

Moonheart

I'm currently doing it early in my current playthrough: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48324/children-of-fire-or-how-to-have-some-fun-with-dragon-disciples-shenaningans#latest.
I did only... 3-4 dungeons before going for the Chapters 3-4-5

However, what you need to understand, @zfarsh, is that Imoen is a Dual Class. She will -NEVER- improve in thievery skills by leveling up, no matter how much xp you give her.
It means that the ONLY regular way to improve Imoen's Thievery skills is by using items... there is no other way, and rescuing her early or late won't change anything about that.

The only reason you would want to do her rescue early if for the sake to have her not fall back of too many levels compared to the other party member. Not that she's truly innefficient if she's some levels behind, but well, you could prefer it this way.... but it won't change her thievery skills at all neverless.

GreenWarlock

I made a poor attempt to gain Imoen early that worked out badly - but I was playing a multi-class character, so the game computed a low 'average level' for our party when we got there, and I got the 400k xp versions, rather than the 1.2Mxp level I was aiming for. The latter would have been close in level to our party, the one we got was essentially always 1Mxp behind, or around 3 mage levels. That will matter less when your reach ToB, but was a painfully obvious through most of SoA (which is as far as I played that game, I rarely make it all the way to ToB before restartitis hits).

So my observation is that if you want Imoen in the party, do go early, but also play a single-class PC. With a multi-class, you probably want to do two or three of the major quest lines before heading out, but certainly not all of them.

I think I had followed up on Jaheira's quest line most of the way (as I like to loot a certain ring) and had otherwise been playing NPC-specific quests to reach the required gold.

Jarrakul

I literally just cheat her up to the lowest experience total in the party. Not exactly playing the game as intended, but it saves a lot of hassle, so I can't be bothered to feel bad about it.

zfarsh

Thanks guys, yes, I understand I cant level up her thieving skills, hence why I was asking for tips on doing them with items or spells (not sure what I can do other than potions I would keep having to buy),

and yes, I want her mage levels to be not too distant.

That said, my party members are currently as follows: Me (Sorceror), Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie, and I am now picking up Keldorn, and have to then pick-up Mazzy and switch leave Minsc

In order to do the above, I have to do the Unseing Eye quest AND the Ulmar Hill (or wherever Mazzy is at). Aerie is asking to go see her uncle, so I may have to do that quest too, and not sure if Jaheira will bother me to do her quest too. So that is a few already which I may not be able to escape from

I also felt maybe I needed to do the Nalia quest for the Axe and Frail weps one can find there. Or should I wait on this, since I am still debating to have Mazzy specialize in Halbredt instead of an Axe.

Again, I have never done an early saving of Imoen, so not sure what to expect, and how much is minimum I can do of the above just to have my complete team and not lose anyone in the process!!

Finally, there is the question of Jan, who will be replaced by Imoen (feel bad doing that, but I also feel responsibility towards Imoen and like her, so I got to do it). Anyways, should I bring him along with me to save Imoen, and when I leave him, will he get back in town? Or should I use Yoshimo to detecting traps? Or screw the thieve requirement and go 5 members?

GreenWarlock

I will add that too many multi-class chars will reduce the likelihood of a reasonable level for Imoen, as it seems to be based on the average level of the party, not average XP. Jan and Aerie's split xp bring the average level down, and may even count as double-weight (2 classes at low levels, vs. 1 higher level class). For an early Imoen, I am strongly tempted to take Yoshi as my thief to trade these days, or failing that, Nalia. I may be a little on the conservative side, but I am not sold otherwise

sansserif

zfarsh said:

Thanks guys, yes, I understand I cant level up her thieving skills, hence why I was asking for tips on doing them with items or spells (not sure what I can do other than potions I would keep having to buy),

and yes, I want her mage levels to be not too distant.

That said, my party members are currently as follows: Me (Sorceror), Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie, and I am now picking up Keldorn, and have to then pick-up Mazzy and switch leave Minsc

In order to do the above, I have to do the Unseing Eye quest AND the Ust nata (or wherever Mazzy is at). Aerie is asking to go see her uncle, so I may have to do that quest too, and not sure if Jaheira will bother me to do her quest too. So that is a few already which I may not be able to escape from

I also felt maybe I needed to do the Nalia quest for the Axe and Frail weps one can find there. Or should I wait on this, since I am still debating to have Mazzy specialize in Halbredt instead of an Axe.

Again, I have never done an early saving of Imoen, so not sure what to expect, and how much is minimum I can do of the above just to have my complete team and not lose anyone in the process!!

Finally, there is the question of Jan, who will be replaced by Imoen (feel bad doing that, but I also feel responsibility towards Imoen and like her, so I got to do it). Anyways, should I bring him along with me to save Imoen, and when I leave him, will he get back in town? Or should I use Yoshimo to detecting traps? Or screw the thieve requirement and go 5 members?

You could bring yoshimo along to Spellhold, if you do, his questline gives you 200,000 quest experience, I recall. Aside from Hexxat, he's the only other pure thief in the game. Jan is also an option. He goes back to his home in the Slums if you kick him out.

For imoens level to be not too distant I guess u could keep scrolls for her, those u get along the way. You could then kick out everyone from the party leaving yourself and Imoen for more experience.

Btw, mazzys quest is the umar Hills quest, ust natha is the drow city in the Underdark

zfarsh

Thanks guys.

I guess I could bring in Yoshimo, then when I am about to collect the 200k exp, just keep myself, Imoen, and Aery so 60k each to 3 key members, and that learning spell experience trick.

sansserif

I guess that would do.

You could also chug a couple of Master thievery potions and steal high level spell scrolls for more experience. You could erase spells and relearn them for more experience.

I bought and/or stole all the thievery potions in SoA I could find, to my dismay I didnt even finish them in ToB due to lack of merchants, and Hexxat's high level.