The best "gish" protagonist?
Moonheart
Member Posts: 520
I found some imput on the topic about tank protagonist interesting, so I'm curious to know what people would say to be the best class for a Gish protonagonist
For a remainder, a gish is a Githyanki Fighter/Wizard combination, but one a larger sense, refers to any characting using arcane magic to enhance his own personnal combat capacities (through buffing) in order to make himself even deadlier with his weapons.
There are several possibilities to mix weapon play and magic in BG2, so I think it could be an interesting discussion
For a remainder, a gish is a Githyanki Fighter/Wizard combination, but one a larger sense, refers to any characting using arcane magic to enhance his own personnal combat capacities (through buffing) in order to make himself even deadlier with his weapons.
There are several possibilities to mix weapon play and magic in BG2, so I think it could be an interesting discussion
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Berzerker/Kensai (13)=>Mage
Potentially F/M/T if using Mislead+backstab
There is little to no debate on this one, other fighter kits and F/M are straight off less good.
Elf F/M, Timestop GWW go go go go
Berserker immunities are nice but can mostly be covered by other party members and/or Slayer.
Because Fighter dualed into Mage with Belm offhand and Black blade of disaster gets 5APR already (could consider Crom Faeyr offhand as well once you get Gloves of extraordinary specialization, you get 4.5APR with 25str) and can complete with Improved haste for 10 or 9APR, which is much like permanent GWW.
Berserker gets huge immunities and some additional damage, while kensai gets additional damage and Kai, which is just awesome with BBoD (considering the 2D12 damage).
Yes, that's wonderful to do thousand of damage in a few rounds... but what good it makes if it makes you rest at each fight? You're not progressing in the game faster this way than by getting a tad less DPS, but without depleting yourself at each encounter with weaklings
Not to mention that you might want to use two handed weapons for various reasons... (although, Black Blade of Disaster is pretty cool)
How does Kensai Kai work out damage-wise vs someone using Critical Strike against an opponent without a helmet?
*edit
Forgot to add that with Belm in the offhand, two of your attacks are at +2 and might not be able to hit whatever it is you're swinging at.
Well, in the end you should have BBoD in mainhand and Crom Faeyr in offhand.
Let's do the maths now:
The most damaging Two handed weapon is Staff of the Ram+6, with an average 18 damage.
The most damaging one-handed weapon is, if elemental damages are appliable, Flail of Ages+5 with an average 19,5 damage but a free action effect that forbids haste (but allows GWW). Behind that comes BBoD with an average 18. It gives Grandmastery (or will by next week, since right now it does not but it should, and will be fixed with 2.0), which makes it an effective 21 for a F/M multi (a F/M multi is limited to specialization, which is +2 bonus damage, compared to +5 (Grandmastery)). In the end the best weapon still is BBoD, even for a F/M.
Its best DPS is thus achieved when using GWW and BBoD, and it is 18(BBoD)+10(22STR from belt)+5(Grandmastery)+2(gloves) which is 35 per hit on average, 350 on a full round
A berserker (13)=>Mage with Crom Faeyr offhand and improved haste will have:
7Mainhand attack: 18+14(25 STR)+5+2+2(Berserker rage): 41 per hit
2Offhand attacks: 13(Crom Faeyr)+14+5+2+2: 36 per hit.
Overall, 359 damages, slightly better than F/M
A Kensai(13)=>Mage with the same setup will deal 377 on average without Kai, and 425 with Kai, which is much more than F/M.
Not to mention GWW takes a spellcast, while F=>M duals can just prebuff and occasionnally recast haste and be able to cast defensive spells without lowering their damage output.
Elf +1 Long Short Swords Bows (Just flavoring)
Gnome Shorty Saves and Illusion Specialization (Just flavoring)
Half Elf Looks like an elf has infravision, no real bonuses but can RP angsty very well (Just flavoring)
Fighter/Mage multiclass is the only part that really matters, best Gish hands down!
Yes, naturally, during a Time Stop it doesn't matter much... however, besides that, even including its bonus, a kensai 13/mage X will have its base Thac0 capped to 8 and even with its bonus (+4, thus a Thac0 of 4) it doesn't compare to a Fighter/Mage that end to a Thac0 of -4
Is it only because of what he can do during Time Stop that people see in the Kensai/Mage something better than the Fighter/Mage, or I am missing some point?
Furthermore, if you do run into an enemy you have trouble hitting, you can always use Critical Strike, because regardless of whether or not they have a helmet, it still gives you a round of auto-hits.
A level 13 Kensai has a base Thac0 of 4 (8,-4 thanks to kensai bonuses).
With 25STR, a +5 weapon with grandmastery and gloves, you are down to -12, which is enough
A raging Berzerker would have -10, which is quite sufficient as well.
Which leave the damage topic:
We almost all think to use Crom Frayer for obvious reasons, which is 25 STR, thus, +14 damage.
K13/M:
- Grand Mastery: +5
- Kit bonus: +4
F/M:
- Specialization: +2
- Gloves: +2
So K13/M gets +23, and F/M gets +18... on the paper, damage seems to be on the K13/M side... but:
- Kai only double the average base damage of a weapon
- Critical Strike double the average base damage of a weapon, but also bonus damage
... thus, at the end, K13/M gets +23 and F/M get +36 against everything that doesn't have an helmet
I still think a F/M is better at melee than a K13/M by the end of the game
In a party of 3 it's quite easy to get that 8M xp in soa, and as far as i remember, in a party of 4 you can do so too.
You'll also have the most destructive power for a round, crit + kai in the same round (thx alacrity).
I'm not even sure you lose somthing that valuable as a mage compare to K13/M
Using BBoD, Belm, and GoEWS...