Choosing Weapon Proficiency Slots for NPC's When You Recruit Them Instead (Thoughts and Suggestions)

Debaser

I personally, would always use Shadowkeeper to edit the Weapon Proficiency slots on my NPC's to slots that made more sense. So my hope is that there will be a SK type editor at the very least...or that when you take on an NPC it would force you to stop and choose slots for them right then and there. The reason I think this is better is because it would make replay value a lot higher, depending on who you choose and how you spec out a party while you go along, you could really mix up your weapon choices, instead of being forced to pick from horrible combinations like Jaheria's Club spec, etc.

Also I edited the title of this thread to reflect what I mean more accurately....but what do you guys think?

sandmanCCL

Clubs are not horrible. They are just limited because there are not many. The Gnasher and the Blackblood are standout weapons in BG2, and the Club of Detonation is simply amazing. Not that I ever had Jaheira in melee because she's very deadly with a sling.

In fact, I'm not sure this needs to change at all for BG2. BG1, on the other hand, has a few odd choices. Mostly on the thieves and mages.

Half of what made characters unique was their weapon specs, though. Especially Coran and Haer'Dalis.

Debaser

Well...they still are limited to whatever specs are available to class...this way you can get them optimized a bit so different weapons go to different characters....less overlapping. Plus...two slots in a good weapon choice that makes sense or even a mediocre one you choose for fun are lot more plausible than a random one like clubs to me. =/ I would always spec Jaheria for Staffs and Scimitar and she would turn out to be a wonderful melee fighter that way for instance. I love her Character, but I seriously hate the Club Proficiency. In BG2 there's a couple decent ones like you said, but I would never choose them over a good staff.

Debaser

Also the sword and shield spec is very ineffective and she gets that in BG2 as well...so if that's the case for her BG1 EE Translation, I would rather skip that and use Staffs, sling and Scimitar from the start.

Debaser

Spears is even a good one!

sandmanCCL

I realize there are a lot of weapon options. Just saying clubs are not bad. The are the only one-handed blunt weapons druids can use, and considering they also give her sling and shield profeciency, it fits. She can tank pretty well in BG2. Clubs + shield work well toward that end. She can absorb a surprising amount of punishment because of her high constitution, can equip heavy armors, and has 17 dexterity. Outside of the Gauntlets of Dexterity, the only melee-oriented guy with more is Valygar but he can't use heavy armor.

I don't get things like Valygar's points in spears. There's no reason to use a spear on Big V because you can't backstab with them and that's kind of the whole point of going stalker to begin with. Would make more sense if they backed up his natural katana proficiency with something like longswords. I think Haer'Dalis had some weird points spent in odd areas but it didn't matter because you'd never not use shortswords on him because of his default weapons + that extra pip in short swords you can't normally get on blades.

The_New_Romance

While I understand that it would be a convenient feature, I don't see how it could be justified from a roleplaying perspective. The NPCs (especially in BG2, but to a lesser degree in BG1 as well) are personalities with their own history. How could you change this upon meeting them? It seems very meta-gamey to me.

sandmanCCL

I should mention I am in favor of letting players choose the thief skills of the thieves who join later on so they'd be more useful. Alora joining with bare minimum detect traps skill is a huge turn off.

I guess I just don't see the need to switch up weapon proficiency (much). I get why people would like it though.

CaptRory

I think the problem is that, if you recruit them early, you have complete control. If you could go and get an NPC at the start of the game you have almost complete control over where their points go. the first thing I do in any game is march out and recruit the NPCs I want to use just for that reason.

MilesBeyond

CaptRory said:

I think the problem is that, if you recruit them early, you have complete control. If you could go and get an NPC at the start of the game you have almost complete control over where their points go. the first thing I do in any game is march out and recruit the NPCs I want to use just for that reason.

The problem with this is it's yet another reason why late-game NPCs are boned.

I don't know if it will happen, though. I think the weapons are a part of who the NPC was designed to be. Like how Minsc uses two-handed swords. Never mind the Ranger bonus to dualwielding, 2-handers are the Minsc weapon.

In other words, it's the same thing as the stats. Could they use some tweaking? Sure. Will it happen? Probably not. Especially since a number of NPCs reflect the (original) devs' P&P characters.

colonel_burger

@debaser The level 1 NPC mod will do what you want.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/

No doubt the mad scientists over at G3 will update this to work with BG:EE once released.

Brude

colonel_burger said:

@debaser The level 1 NPC mod will do what you want.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/

No doubt the mad scientists over at G3 will update this to work with BG:EE once released.

One thing to note: If you get certain NPCs early, they lose a litle bit of experience when this mod is installed. Eg: Jaheira is actually level 2 in one of her classes when you meet her for the first time at the Friendly Arms. The mod doesn't account for that, and resetting her to zero causes that extra level to disappear. This is true for a few other opening game NPCs too.

Not a huge deal but worth considering before anyone installs.

Debaser

Thank you @Colonel_Burger & @Brude....my problem is for whatever reason I could never get TUTU to work for me...so I have only played BG1 with the original version. No dual wielding, etc. But what I did do is use ShadowKeeper and whatever the BG1 equivalent was to alter proficiencies and thieving skills so they would be consistent through both games.

@MilesBeyond Regarding Minsc...I have always in BG1 made him using Long Swords and tank, and then kept him as a duel wielder in BG2. Also, in BG2 I would change him into a Berserker...and reason that when he hit his head prior to BG1 he kind of changed classes without realizing...he's one of my favorite characters, but he was always way more effective as a pure tank or dual wielding for me than with a two handed sword. Now Keldorn...Sarevok...those guys could rock a two-hander.

Also, @MilesBeyond...I agree with you that changing NPC's later game is a dead end with the proficieny selection, usually they pick some things that are OK, and then they pick stuff that's a total waste. Keldorn should stick with Two-Handed Swords, Two-Hand Style...Crossbows, and long swords for example, he's a Paladin. A Knight...and a Nobleman. I couldn't see him going with a blunt weapon really...maybe a morningstar / flail...but I wouldn't want the game to randomly pick things I don't see as a fit just because I want to get him later in the game.

Debaser

*Bump*

bigdogchris

I like NPC's having their own identity, which means their own level (not mirrored) and their own equipment and proficiencies. Too many modern RPGs give players full control over every single aspect, like this, and it makes games rather bland as no NPC's have personality.

Miloch

colonel_burger said:

@debaser The level 1 NPC mod will do what you want.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/

No doubt the mad scientists over at G3 will update this to work with BG:EE once released.

No doubt... now if we only had some mad scientists rather than some club-handed half-orcs...

@Brude - what you are talking about only happens if you install the "Joinable NPCs more closely match PCs experience" component (or whatever it's called) - in which case, it's expected behaviour, as the name would imply. And it works both ways obviously (if you have more experience, so will the NPCs). In any case, you get to choose their proficiencies as if they started at level 1.