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A strange melee character

MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
I had a strange idea coming through my mind... and I would like to see if anyone can put a decent build for it.

The idea is the following: A protagonist using the Staff of Magi as a weapon, but who doesn't cast spells.

Is there in fact a way to make a decent melee character (PS: without the use of mods, EEkeeper or console command) that will use this weapon just to... crush the skulls of his foes?
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Comments

  • craymond727craymond727 Member Posts: 208
    edited March 2016
    Some combination of Fighter & Thief with UAI?

    Edit: I forget, do you need to be a Mage to get (not use) the staff?
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    edited March 2016
    Half orc fighter cleric with staff spec? Max str con wis. Dump Stat dex.

    Neutral evil to control the pesky undead who do not bow to the dark might of your large woo...*cough*... wooden staff...
  • craymond727craymond727 Member Posts: 208
    Aewyrven wrote: »
    Half orc fighter cleric with staff spec? Max str con wis. Dump Stat dex.

    Neutral evil to control the pesky undead who do not bow to the dark might of your large woo...*cough*... wooden staff...

    AFAIK, the staff can only be used by Mages/Sorcerers, with the rogue classes gaining access with UAI.
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    edited March 2016
    Aewyrven wrote: »
    Half orc fighter cleric with staff spec? Max str con wis. Dump Stat dex.

    Neutral evil to control the pesky undead who do not bow to the dark might of your large woo...*cough*... wooden staff...

    AFAIK, the staff can only be used by Mages/Sorcerers, with the rogue classes gaining access with UAI.

    Just checked. Half orc ftr cleric multi gives option to 2 prof staff.

    Edit: and my half elf cleric Mage multi can wield it....and I went through text starter cutscent. Half orc cleric fighter neutral evil multi. 2 slot prof staff. He can put it on.
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    edited March 2016
    Aewyrven wrote: »
    Aewyrven wrote: »
    Half orc fighter cleric with staff spec? Max str con wis. Dump Stat dex.

    Neutral evil to control the pesky undead who do not bow to the dark might of your large woo...*cough*... wooden staff...

    AFAIK, the staff can only be used by Mages/Sorcerers, with the rogue classes gaining access with UAI.

    Just checked. Half orc ftr cleric multi gives option to 2 prof staff.

    He means the Staff of Magi itself. It has special restrictions by itself even as a quarterstaff.
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    edited March 2016
    d83wn8gxzzbt.png

    Don't see why not.haven't picked it up yet tho so not sure on restrictions.

    Edit: Google image searching shows usable by mage so... I'd say then go fighter mage.... or f m c.... or variations thereof... while I await an answer for my q on the cult thread I'll go about aquiring the staff and see. I've haer in my group and need to go bridge anyways. Perhaps someone else can shed light on it. I know I loved it back in the computer days. ... tho there are too few halberd users these days... *grin *

    I'll repost when I aquire it if someone else hasn't by then. I still have minsc in my party and can go get Jahira or Korgan to see if fighters can use.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    It's just specifically limited to mages and sorcerers, is all. Nothing about staves, it's just that specific item.
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    Found this after some digging....

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    I'd guess it's mage only.... so that limits your options a bit.... I'd suggest human if you want to dual class or half elf since you don't take the con hit by multi classing as a pure elf.... I'll let ya know on it tho if it's not replied to when I aquire it.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I forget, do you need to be a Mage to get (not use) the staff?
    Anyone can get it, the event is not tied to any class or other character trait. As long as you know how to unlock it, anyone at all can do it and get the Staff in the process.

    As for usability, obviously it would have to be either Mage or Rogue to be able to use the Staff. Most damage likely comes from a Fighter combination, F/M, F->, F/T, or F->T.

    However, it could also be fun to use it on a Bard, maybe a staff-whirling Blade that goes to town with Tenser's etc.? Would fit with the whole "imma use this to clobber and you shut up about it now" idea, too, RP-wise.
  • craymond727craymond727 Member Posts: 208
    @Lord_Tansheron I had the same though actually, but my concern would be the low APR due to being a non-fighter; I've played as a Blade before and dual-wielding mitigates that somewhat, whereas only using a single, albeit two-handed, weapon would drop that even further.
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    @Lord_Tansheron I had the same though actually, but my concern would be the low APR due to being a non-fighter; I've played as a Blade before and dual-wielding mitigates that somewhat, whereas only using a single, albeit two-handed, weapon would drop that even further.

    Wild mage dual class fighter?
  • craymond727craymond727 Member Posts: 208
    edited March 2016
    Aewyrven wrote: »
    Wild mage dual class fighter?

    Unfortunately you can't dual from a Wild Mage, and Moonheart has sworn themself from the succubus known as EEKeeper.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Do you only want to use the staff? I would do a FT but you can't backstab with it.
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    Yes, only the staff. It would be easy to figure what to do otherwise.

    The staff's restrictions are:
    Not usable by:
    Bard
    Cleric
    Druid
    Fighter
    Monk
    Paladin
    Ranger
    Thief
    Barbarian
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Moonheart Then I would do a FMC. If only you could backstab it would be ultimate FMT weapon.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    It is hardly ever done this way but a mage dualled into fighter might prove decent.
    Level 12 would be a powergaming option (to get improved haste and maxed Mirror image), but you could dual earlier than that (level 9)
    That gives access to grandmastery etc...
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    Well considering that is you use the Cloak of Whispers, you can litteraly crush a skull, escape with staff's invisibility, crush a skull, escape, crush a skull, escape... I wonder if it would need a single defensive spell...

    @craymond727 this is strange if it can't dual. It's a mage kit, and you can dual mage. Why Wild Mage would not be able to dual, when Kensai can?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Moonheart I guess the devs just decided so.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Moonheart wrote: »

    @craymond727 this is strange if it can't dual. It's a mage kit, and you can dual mage. Why Wild Mage would not be able to dual, when Kensai can?


    A simple matter of balance.
    A wild mage can use Nahal Reckless dweomer to cast a level 9 spell even at level 1, as long as you have it in your book. This'd make early wild mage dual OP. Let's suppose you dual at level 5, for example. With Chaos Shield, Wild mage robe and thayan circlet, when casting NRD you have 50% chance that it works normally, 6% that it works better, 40% that something not too terrible or beneficial happens, and only 4% that it will actually backlash which is quite big since it can give you even wish, time stop or such things.
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited March 2016
    The Thayan Circlet becomes accessible so late that by that time a 50% chance to cast non-epic level 9 spells means nothing toward the balance... and Chaos Shield doesn't stack with the Robe of Goodman Hayes (There is currently a bug, but it is solved into the v2.0)
    So... a WM dual classing will be like a 20% chance to cast a level 9 spell... once you have found its scroll.
    By that time, any dual or multi from a standard mage will do better than that, IMHO, so don't see any balance problem in that.

    But anyway, it's not relevant, since it's not possible anyway to dual class a WM
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Moonheart wrote: »
    I disagree with you, @Arusun

    1- The Thayan Circlet is a moot point
    When it becomes accessible, any real mage can cast 50 spells in a single Time Stop, with 100% chances of success (98% for a single class WM)... so how powerful is 50% chance of casting level 9 spells with no casting time reduction nor epic spells by then?
    Imoen by herself will litteraly render the spellcasting of a WM1/xxx into a mere joke at this time. I'm not even speaking of someone like Edwin or a Kensai-Mage

    2- Chaos Shield doesn't stack with the Robe of Goodman Hayes.
    There is currently a bug, but it is solved into the v2.0
    So basicaly, the highest improvement you can get to Wild S


    So basicaly, the chance to cast a level 9 spell with Nahal's when it would be relevant for the balance are something like... 15-20%... and you first need to FIND the level 9 scrolls.
    When this will happen, Imoen herself will be much more efficient at spellcasting than any WM relying on Nahal's

    If playing solo, a wild mage dualled to fighter would be uncomparably stronger than any other Mage=>Fighter dual.
    It is a fact. It does not mean it would be as good as a kensai mage for example. But it is a lot stronger than any other Mage=>Fighter.
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited March 2016
    I'd take Rage over 20% chances to cast a level 9 spell once I found the relevant scroll anytime, so the gap between the kit and the base class is much greater on the Berzerker than on the Wild Mage, and still the Berzerker can dual
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    Arunsun said:

    It is hardly ever done this way but a mage dualled into fighter might prove decent.

    Level 12 would be a powergaming option (to get improved haste and maxed Mirror image), but you could dual earlier than that (level 9)

    That gives access to grandmastery etc...

    I was thinking along similar lines, but the parameter is "a protagonist using the Staff of Magi as a weapon, but who doesn't cast spells."

    Of course, any Thief build with UAI can use the staff, but that would require a bit of waiting and the Thief would have a low APR. I think that the simplest solution, that only slightly violates the non-casting parameter, would be a Human Mage 2 dualed to Fighter (I don't think you can dual class at level 1, but I've never tried or gave it consideration before). The character would be able to get grandmastery in quarterstaffs and two pips in two-handed weapon style, as well as wear any armor since casting is not a consideration. As for mandatory starting spells, I would choose Find Familiar (cast it once to get the bonus HP, and then never again), and something like Identify (it's just lore, not magic) or Know Alignment (he's got a good gut instinct).
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    Well, if I go the UAI route, I'll rather do something like a Berzerker 13/Thief than a plain Thief anyway... this way, the APR will be somewhat fixed.
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    edited April 2016
    Moonheart said:

    Well, if I go the UAI route, I'll rather do something like a Berzerker 13/Thief than a plain Thief anyway... this way, the APR will be somewhat fixed.

    If your build is 100% reliant on UAI to begin with, then then I would be inclined to go with Kensai 13/Thief, or perhaps even Wizard Slayer 13/Thief. Those two fighter classes benefit the most from UAI. But I don't know exactly what kind of character you have in mind.

    I still think that your best bet "just to crush the skulls of your foes" is the Mage2/Fighter dual. You'll only lose one maximum Fighter level, you can regain some of your lost HP with the Find Familiar spell (it's just a pet), and you don't have to learn additional spells. There really isn't much of a loss as you would essentially be a pure class Fighter, and you would be guaranteed to use the Staff of Magi as soon as you find it (as well as other items that are Mage only).
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited April 2016
    Mm yes, but for a character that doesn't use spells, Rage is a really nasty ability, too.. so I don't know.

    What kind of character I have in mind?
    Nothing special, I'm just curious to theorize how much this staff can be abused if turned into a true weapon and just as a set of bonus for a spellcaster... after all, it counts as a +5 weapon, allows the fighter to turn invisible at will, to cast fireballs and to absorb spells... it's a good weapon for melee I think!
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    Duh. What do you think a lot of F/Ms or FMTs have been using all this time? It's basically the go-to weapon for a lot of people doing solo runs.
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited April 2016
    This is not truly like if I had the pretense to be the first to think about it, you know :disappointed:
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    Moonheart said:

    Mm yes, but for a character that doesn't use spells, Rage is a really nasty ability, too.. so I don't know.

    What kind of character I have in mind?
    Nothing special, I'm just curious to theorize how much this staff can be abused if turned into a true weapon and just as a set of bonus for a spellcaster... after all, it counts as a +5 weapon, allows the fighter to turn invisible at will, to cast fireballs and to absorb spells... it's a good weapon for melee I think!

    If you want to abuse the weapon and not take any mage levels, then your best bet is Kensai/Thief. Once you gain UAI, the Kensai's weaknesses are eliminated and you end up with an extra 2 AC, bonus Thac0 and damage, and Ki strike. And you can backstab with quarterstaffs.

    Another possible, albeit longer path, would be Assassin 21 (or whatever level you gain UAI) dualed to Fighter. You'd get bonus backstab damage and poison to increase your damage output.

    Even the Wizard Slayer/Thief would be decent, since he would be able to shut down enemy casters.

  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    You can't backstab with the Staff of the Magi though, because plain thieves can't use it. People generally use the staff because it drives spellcasters nuts with click weapon->invis. It may not be strongest weapon damage-wise, but it can help you clear stuff without hassle.
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