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What can change the nature of a man?

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  • LockLock Member Posts: 84
    This is kinda on-topic (although I suspect many of you don't realise it), but I just noticed that Planescape: Torment has more reviews on GOG (7500) than any other infinity engine game, even BG2 (6200). It boggles my mind how it wasn't a commercial success. It's also got a perfect five stars, although BG1 and BG2 also share that.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    I just could not get into this game for some reason. I've tried to play it a couple of times but my interest quickly fizzles.

    This is my issue, lol, not the game's. I do not doubt that it's a great game--clearly one of the best (if not the best for roleplaying options) ever made, or so I've read. But for some reason it fails to engage me early on.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Polymorph self
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    This question being done by a night hag, close to your face, can surely change the nature of a man, he will need to change his pants too, if he escape alive :)!

  • lordkimlordkim Member Posts: 1,063
    Cut of he´s Balls, and you got a whole new man....
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    ^ TNO would just grow a new pair. :)
    kamuizinCrevsDaak
  • MedullaOblongataMedullaOblongata Member Posts: 434
    Belief :P

    *colors outside of the lines*
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited October 2012
    ESTROGEN
    Post edited by fighter_mage_thief on
    Teflon
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Tr_ond said:

    @Zafiro : You should. Pancakes make the world a better place.

    Only if they have Maple Syrup on them. I mean true Maple Syrup, none of that aunt Jemima crap.
    meaglothTeflonCrevsDaak
  • nuclearradionuclearradio Member Posts: 2
    Dude, has nobody understood this in all these years!?!?! The answer is the Name of the Game! Torment! Torment changes the nature of a man!
    TeflonThePlanarTravelerCrevsDaak
  • nuclearradionuclearradio Member Posts: 2
    Even the TNO doesn't completely understand this until the end. He embraces Torment when he embraces his mortality.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Maybe prolonged exposure to miniature giant space hamster-toting rangers that aim to swiftly kick evil in the buttock for goodnes, or consuming alarming amounts of mint chocolate chip ice cream.

    On a more serious note, I don't think anything (or very few things, at least) can change the true nature of a man. it can only be exaggerated of diminished, but not fundamentaly changed, except for in extremely sever cases, maybe. One can fall under the influence of the world temporarily, but what sometimes seems like a complete change of ways in usually reverting to old ways that have remained hidden, be they good or evil. As for whether the nature of man is good or evil, that is a separate discussion.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    belief - still
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,607
    Belt of Opposite Gender.
    MoomintrollCrevsDaak
  • Night_WatchNight_Watch Member Posts: 514
    evolution?
    or
    CrevsDaak
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Prolonged exposure to controlled substances. Just ask the ex-flatmate of mine who became nocturnal, habitually carried a fully-automatic BB gun and flunked out of University after 2 years despite a sky-high IQ. Nice guy.

    His case might actually be due to Ennui as well though. He'd inherited enough money that he would never need to work. Unlike everyone else he didn't need to work to make sure he could survive as an adult, and any drive or ambition he had ebbed away.
    Moomintroll
  • DeefjeDeefje Member Posts: 110
    I voted nothing... because the right answer isn't there....

    Isn't the answer......

    A woman?


    (I certainly know all my friends changed after they met theirs. ;) )
    alnairGod
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Everything above and more.

    I don't think people usually change in a dramatic way like a switch. Both the factors/causes are gradual, and so are the results. It's more likely the accumulation of all sorts of factors, leading to an evolution of personality, character and 'nature'.

    It is my theory that most of us start life quite naive, innocent, idealistic and optimistic, since that is what most cultures and families teach young children. There's an interesting nature/nurture question here, for which I have no opinion. I'd like to think I was naturally a very empathetic, caring and honourable individual, but then I was taught to be so from my earliest memories.

    Unfortunately it only takes a few bad apples in society to ruin its general innocence, which is an inevitable process. It's rather like the concept of altruism vs selfishness as explained in the excellent book "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins.

    Personally as I came across people of questionable morality in my formative years, who failed to live up to my ideals, people who let me down, people who hurt me (in fairly minor ways) I gradually learnt to become more cautious, more guarded... I told myself that I was still the same person, merely 'learning to look out for myself'... but over time my cynicism also grew, my opinion of people in general declined, and I realised my 'nature' really is shaped by thousands of little thoughts and actions.

    If I took this test http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/21221/what-alignment-are-you/p1 at 15 years old, I'd almost certainly be some sort of self-righteous-crusading Lawful Good (more commonly known as Lawful Stoopid) paladin-type, minus the religious zealotry and replace it with a good dose of Nationalism.

    Nowadays, I no longer jump into a disadvantageous fight unquestioningly (I once took on the popular school rugby team to defend a geek they were bullying, but I got no thanks from the victim, and only social isolation as a result in school, cos nobody fucks with the rugby team!). I do not argue against teachers/my peers to defend China against a biased media in the West, because fuck it, my homeland doesn't really give a shit about me anyway. Don't get me started about women... lol Basically because of all my life experiences, all those little things combined, I am now Lawful Neutral on that test. I'd like to think I am still Good ol' me, but practically, if a stranger met me in the street, it makes no different to them what I think of myself, my actions will probably resemble that of a Lawful Neutral person, leaning towards good of course.

    Wow this rant turned out a lot longer than I expected. In my defence, it's a complex question!
    Battlehamster
  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    While I think all of those *can* be applied regret definitely has the most prolific effect on a persons nature. All of these options epitomize some sort of conflict, but only regret demonstrates the conflict of a person vs. themselves. If your nature conflicts against itself it inevitably will change in some way. Plus, I may or may not have just finished Bioshock Infinite. xD

    I used to consider myself Lawful Neutral since I never really questioned authority. Then I realized that people really don't know significantly anymore than I do about the world and I've been revering authority with undeserved absolute wisdom. Once I regretted that I spent my life listening to stupidity as the verification of truth I realized that law is good...but occasionally you need to bash it with a stick and go against the grain. Stable law systems only come about after (brief) anarchy after all!
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Don't underestimate the power of the dark side.
    CrevsDaak
  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    Wilbur said:

    Don't underestimate the power of the dark side.

    -Said an anonymous Sith who was killed by a Sith who killed another Sith and was later killed by a Sith Lord assassinated 5 years afterwards.

    WilburThePlanarTravelerCrevsDaak
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    genetic engineering?
    CrevsDaak
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    If you just want to know how many people played PS:T here, you know, you could always asked, you know..

    If that's not the case, there are many variables that can change the nature of man. The problem is, it's not something objective. Psychologist will tell you one thing, biologist another and teologist yet another, even thought I wouldn't really want to ask teologist. Furthermore, some areas of science, like psychology, aren't solid, but rather divided into different "sets" or "specializations" that differ in point of view.

    I'll say what I think can change nature of man, and furthermore, is currently changing it even right now: EVERY EXPERIENCE.

    Because I believe that the experience, and what do you do with it, not only can but also will change you throught your entire life.
    alnairCrevsDaak
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    belt of masculinity/feminity :)
  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 361
    I have loved enough people to know that I am forever changed afterwards.
    JuliusBorisov
  • AendaeronBluescaleAendaeronBluescale Member Posts: 335
    edited September 2013
    Love: There are two kinds of love. The real love is very rare and can change man's nature; The purchasable bodily one, not that much so.
    Hatred: Also very much, similar to love. See Hitler for the most massive result in current history.
    Power: Yes, power corrupts everyone, even the wise and good-hearted leaders.
    Greed: Greed ruins man mainly financial. See the shareholder companies, especially EA.
    Betrayal: May seem tempting to do again, but: "Betrayal can never be forgiven!" --Kormac, Diablo 3
    Death: The permanent, irreversible loss of another man-kin is always changing. Even soldiers may refuse to shoot instinctively to stop the murder.
    Regret: Rarely changing - if you're already corrupted, there's no turn back. Most souls will further be lost in corruption. Regret is rarely turning man back. Have you ever seen Bhaal regretting his egoistic deed to cheat permanent death? No, me neither.
    Suffering: Suffering breaks one man's will, yes, it changes man's nature much so, mainly in their nature to avoid future suffering.
  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    Some of these I'm just disagreeing to play devil's advocate so I'm don't actually disagree with all of them, but...

    Love: There are two kinds of love. The real love is very rare and can change man's nature; The purchasable bodily one, not that much so.
    Hatred: Also very much, similar to love. See Hitler for the most massive result in current history.
    Power: Yes, power corrupts everyone, even the wise and good-hearted leaders.
    Greed: Greed ruins man mainly financial. See the shareholder companies, especially EA.
    Betrayal: May seem tempting to do again, but: "Betrayal can never be forgiven!" --Kormac, Diablo 3
    Death: The permanent, irreversible loss of another man-kin is always changing. Even soldiers may refuse to shoot instinctively to stop the murder.
    Regret: Rarely changing - if you're already corrupted, there's no turn back. Most souls will further be lost in corruption. Regret is rarely turning man back. Have you ever seen Bhaal regretting his egoistic deed to cheat permanent death? No, me neither.
    Suffering: Suffering breaks one man's will, yes, it changes man's nature much so, mainly in their nature to avoid future suffering.

    Love: Can change a person...but I think its the combined effect of 2 compatible true natures which results in love. I.e. you only get "real love" with a mutual acceptance of the nature of 2 people. I think its admiration which leads to the changing of a nature i.e. a non-romantic love. That's not to say such a thing CAN'T exist alongside a romantic love.

    Hatred: Hatred is borne out of someone's pre-existing nature of conflict and ignorance which leads to regret or merely a continuity of a nature already in place. Hitler wasn't hateful because his nature changed - his nature was a hateful intolerance to another group of people.

    Greed: More begets more. If you have a lot of something or a certain trait there, greed is the natural tenancy to amplify it (also I perceive greed much differently than most). Personally I merely see Greed as a manifestation of the amplification of a person's existing nature - not something which changes it. Wealth doesn't MAKE someone greedy, it merely enables them to want and obtain more if they ARE greedy. A moderate bit of greed is self-sufficiency, an excess is pure selfishness a deficiency is selflessness.

    Betrayal: It wholly depends on how the betrayed person reacts. For some this would be more of an impact than others.

    Death: Your dead. Once this happens yes your nature TOTALLY changes - either you have ascended to pearly white gates or you cease to be, or you are reincarnated. Either way you stop being the same being you were before death.

    Regret: Er... Bhaal never regretted anything, so I don't really see how he can be used as an example of how regret could change your nature. At least when I read it I was making the assumption we were talking about someone who DID regret their actions in which case it would have the most profound effect as you become your own worst enemy. If you dislike yourself you naturally wish to change it I would think.

    Suffering: Simple - a conflict (which is the cause of all suffering) either makes a person stronger or it breaks them completely. Very few people are completely changed by this.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    Nature itself is not subject to change, unless not without my direct intervention. Humans, on the other hand, change continuously and indefinitely within Nature, and said change can be provoked by any kind of stimulus, be it a secretive fart on the other side of the Earth, a moment of cheerfulness, hunger, bronchitis or the collapse of a galaxy. Ever since humans quit being a simple scavenger relying on bone marrow, they are faced with ever more factors that affect them strongly and directly. But even though their brains have grown to obscenely huge dimensions, they continue to be one of the most stupid and excessively reliant species.
    If you really think there is something like 'human nature', 'immortal soul', 'personality' or somesuch - okay, you noticed it but that'd be either Nature or directly my doing. This one thing I thought all religions put straight. Face it, a human is just a heck of a lot of tiny bits constantly played with and held together by a basal power. A human can have no possession of things immaterial or supernatural.
    BelgarathMTHalnairbooinyoureyes
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